SPOILER Opal is still loose!

What do you think will happen in the next installment of the Fowl series?
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by Fowl Fanatic » Mon 15th Sep 2008

We could be living the dream! We should just for fun throw out some ideas in fanfiction, or create a topic in Fowl of the Future. Lets see if we can write a seventh before Eion Colfer. :D
Last edited by Fowl Fanatic on Tue 16th Sep 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by SAPnotLEP » Tue 16th Sep 2008

Sounds great! We could use my FanFiction account. If nobody else here has one.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by Meova » Tue 16th Sep 2008

Wouldn't bet on that, honey ;)
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Fowl Fanatic wrote:Opals insanity is definitly one of her most dominiant personality traits. I think what happen in book six is that since Opal escaped, the timestream will be left open until the past Opal is returned or recaptured. This may result in a mass of 'past' being coming to the future and possibly destroying what we know as the present. Just a thought. :)


There's no such thing as the Time Paradox Theory. At most it's a hypothesis. A theory in science isn't just a speculative guess, it has to be tested. Without time travel, it's impossible to test this hypothesis and thus it cannot be a theory.

Let me explain to you the difference between a hypothesis and a scientific theory.

A hypothesis is what you described, essentially an educated guess. You see evidence, and you make a guess based on that.

A theory is a hypothesis that's been tested and tested so often that it's accepted by the vast majority of the scientific community. You see, nothing is ever proven constant in science. The only "law" any reputable scientist would ever claim is a law is the law of gravity, because we've never observed a circumstance where it doesn't apply. That's why it's the theory of evolution, the theory of relativity, the theory of plate tectonics; even though we know these things are happening, there's no proof that those things are constant throughout the universe.

A law is something that's constant throughout the universe, which is impossible to know.

Long story short, the Time Paradox "Theory" is not a Theory at all until it's tested, and it can't be tested without actually time traveling, which is technology we don't yet have.

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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by Fowl Fanatic » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Your right but there is a theory made by Albert Einstien that time travel is possible made by the discovery of the speed of light. Perhaps it was only the ability to see ahead, knowing that light takes time to travel. This would be a theory based on the assumtion that time travel is possible, which eventually it will be.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Fowl Fanatic wrote:Your right but there is a theory made by Albert Einstien that time travel is possible made by the discovery of the speed of light. Perhaps it was only the ability to see ahead, knowing that light takes time to travel. This would be a theory based on the assumtion that time travel is possible, which eventually it will be.


You can't have a theory based on an assumption. There's the theory of relativity, which has been tested, but there is no time paradox theory. That "theory" was created by Mr. Colfer.

And we don't know if time travel is possible or not, or if it ever will be, so we can't go on that assumption.

Einstein made a hypothesis about time travel being possible, but without being tested, it's not a theory.

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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by SAPnotLEP » Thu 18th Sep 2008

I just read up - This hypothesis, theory, the list goes on of what you want to call it (on which we are currently and pointlessly arguing), is a actually a variation of several different temporal paradoxes.

On another subject, if someone did invent a time-traveling machine in the future, why haven't they brought it back here to us? Time travel is impossible. Unless,

a) There are alternate timelines, like I said the page before.
b) There is a law in place in the future saying no travelling to the past, because of the consequences it could have, if one HYPOTHESIS :lol: is to be believed.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by p5ychic » Thu 18th Sep 2008

SAPnotLEP wrote:I just read up - This hypothesis, theory, the list goes on of what you want to call it (on which we are currently and pointlessly arguing), is a actually a variation of several different temporal paradoxes.

On another subject, if someone did invent a time-traveling machine in the future, why haven't they brought it back here to us? Time travel is impossible. Unless,

a) There are alternate timelines, like I said the page before.
b) There is a law in place in the future saying no travelling to the past, because of the consequences it could have, if one HYPOTHESIS :lol: is to be believed.


I brought that up because I don't want people thinking there's a "Time Paradox Theory."

Anyway, Yes, Opal is still technically loose, and I don't really think that's good writing. It raises the problem raised (intentionally) by Douglas Adams, who had the Aorist Rod idea. An Aorist rod, in his story, was used to mine energy from the past. But because they took the energy from the past, it wasn't there in the future, thus creating the need for them to take it from the past, which means it's absent in the future, which creates the need for them to take it from the past, and so on. In other words, the fact that Colfer takes Opal out of the past, from before the series, means that she's not there for the series, which means the series happened differently. In other words, established events happened a certain way already.

With TTP, Colfer created a time-travel set of rules where established events aren't changed. Everything happens the same way as it already did, despite Artemis and Holly being present in the past. This is why I'm not really happy about Colfer making Opal super-powerful, crazy, and in the future. Because unless there's a next book where they catch Opal, mind-wipe her so she's not crazy (which she wasn't before TOD) and somehow strip her of her new superpowers, the timeline doesn't make sense, and it's bad writing to create a rule of your universe like that and then break it.


Which is why I wasn't such a big fan of the end of TTP.

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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by MMK » Fri 19th Sep 2008

He didn't break it. There's going to be another book... I'm not quite sure how he can follow TTP- it was so odd- but he said in his interview with AFC that there would be another...

EC: Well, the basic plan is that Opal Koboi is in prison in Atlantis and somehow Artemis ends up in there with her. I kind of want to bring Artemis back to being a villain... I want him to be, for some reason that you don't know, he has to do this really bad thing... he doesn't want to do it but he has to.

M: When I taking submissions for questions for this interview, one of the first questions I got was 'Can you please kill Opal off in the first sentence of the next book?'

EC: People are getting tired of her... well, there's two Opals now... EC: So one of them has to go back, so I have to finish that thread. I think that Opal has one more book in her then I can move on...


Argh. Opal was my favorite villain before TTP, and now I'm sort of sick of her. Too much of a good thing, I guess.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by SAPnotLEP » Fri 19th Sep 2008

I agree with MMK. It was odd.

To P5YCHIC: Yes, TTP was a bit... off. I found a lot of it was pointless (the kiss, the whole 'nuddy' thing in page 30-31, was pointless, apart from taking up pages. [Colfer could've taken a Spitfire or some sort of warplane along for the flying scene instead of a Cessna, just shoot down the pixie!]), along with what you pointed out in the whole lecture you said above.

If Artemis got a warplane and killed Opal from the past, the LEP could have mind-wiped Opal of the present, send her to the past, and a 'temporal cycle' starts.

Jeewhiz, Colfer makes Artemis quite dumb sometimes, but then, it is hard to get your hands on a warplane, I suppose.

SO JUST KILL HER ANOTHER WAY! :lol:
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by p5ychic » Fri 19th Sep 2008

SAPnotLEP wrote:If Artemis got a warplane and killed Opal from the past, the LEP could have mind-wiped Opal of the present, send her to the past, and a 'temporal cycle' starts.


The problem with that is, present Opal is five years older than past opal, so when she gets to the present, she'll be five years older than Present Opal should be. So when Present Opal is taken back, she'll be ten years older than past Opal should be, and when she gets to the present she'll be fifteen years older than Present Opal should be. So when she's taken to the past again, she'll be twenty years older than past Opal should be, and when she gets to the present, she'll be twenty-five. This will keep going and going, eventually Opal will be so old that either A) she'll look too old to convincingly look like past Opal and they'll stop sending her back, or failing that, B) She'll eventually die of old age in one of the loops, and they won't be able to send her back because she'll be dead. Luckily, since this is happening in time, the bystanders won't feel the effects. To anyone in the past, it would look like Opal had just aged a lot really quickly. The loop will only stop on the last rotation before they stop sending her back, because the loop is in time, so it happens instantaneously, and there's no way to stop it after you've started it unless the timeline changes enough that you never do it in the first place.

Of course, none of this is possible if Past Opal died, because if Past Opal were dead, then Present Opal would be dead too.

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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by Fowl Fanatic » Sat 20th Sep 2008

Wow you guys have been busy. To P5, I looked up theory in the dictionary for arguements sake and it means:
an explanation or system of anything; ideas and abstract principals of a science or art; a hypothesis.
We were both technically correct. (just wanted to get that straightened out) and if my theory, in the assumtion that time travel is possible is this. When Artemis and Holly went back in time they did not age at all so I believe all of the events we know now are that of an alternate timeline. The only one thing that would have to be done is have the past Opal be sent back to her own time and all of this would happen.
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by p5ychic » Sat 20th Sep 2008

Fowl Fanatic wrote:Wow you guys have been busy. To P5, I looked up theory in the dictionary for arguements sake and it means:
an explanation or system of anything; ideas and abstract principals of a science or art; a hypothesis.
We were both technically correct. (just wanted to get that straightened out) and if my theory, in the assumtion that time travel is possible is this. When Artemis and Holly went back in time they did not age at all so I believe all of the events we know now are that of an alternate timeline. The only one thing that would have to be done is have the past Opal be sent back to her own time and all of this would happen.


That is a theory when it's speculation, but not when applied to science. In speculation, a theory is like a hypothesis, but in science (like time travel) theories are much more rigidly defined.

Anyway, Fowl Fanatic is right about the only option being to send Past Opal back. Do I remember something about it being illegal to mesmerize a fairy? Would that apply to mind wipes too?

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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by Meova » Sat 20th Sep 2008

Mind wipes isn't mesmerizing, right? So I think it would be possible. I'm really curious to see how Colfer will deal with this, since it's a major hole now. Hmm. Might be interesting to write a fanfic about... I shall place it on my to-do list :P
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Re: SPOILER Opal is still loose!

Post by SAPnotLEP » Sat 20th Sep 2008

True, looks like there is a hole in my idea.

Besides, it's hard to get your hands on a warplane.
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