Holly, the lesbian

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Meova
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by Meova » Tue 7th Apr 2009

Bisexual really works for me too. It somehow just fits... I'm not sure how, though. I never gave it any thought before, though I should have. I'll try to write some bisexual-Holly fanfic once. I need something other than the RP-story to work on (It's a lot of fun, but sometimes you need something else, y'know.) If I have it up, I could let you guys know...

@ artymon - I mean Minnie/Holly. I already did Mulch/Holly ;)
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by victoria » Wed 8th Apr 2009

you know the world is coming to an end when people think that any girl who has a "man's job" is gay or bi.
I think she's straight, and that she's more married to her job than anything else right now. She's a tomboy, and tomboys aren't necessarily lesbian.
As for the "everyone is bi to some degree" theory, what, then, does the term "bisexual" really mean? I can say a friend looks cute without being attracted to her.
If, however, being completely hetero- means that you think everyone of your respective sex is hideous, then yes, i think everyone is a bit bi. But this doesn't make much sense to me.
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by p5ychic » Thu 9th Apr 2009

victoria wrote:you know the world is coming to an end when people think that any girl who has a "man's job" is gay or bi.
I think she's straight, and that she's more married to her job than anything else right now. She's a tomboy, and tomboys aren't necessarily lesbian.
As for the "everyone is bi to some degree" theory, what, then, does the term "bisexual" really mean? I can say a friend looks cute without being attracted to her.
If, however, being completely hetero- means that you think everyone of your respective sex is hideous, then yes, i think everyone is a bit bi. But this doesn't make much sense to me.


I never said it had anything to do with it having a "Man's Job" or being tough or anything like that. I just think that Holly's character is much more interesting as a lesbian or if she's bisexual. I've always sensed some sexual tension between Opal and Holly (you can't hate someone without caring about them. If you didn't care about what they did, then they wouldn't make you so angry. Whether they realize it or not, Opal cares insanely about Holly if she hates her so much.)

I mean, think about it. I'm going to give you two stories. You tell me which one makes the characters more three-dimensional and the story seem deeper.

Story one: Holly hates Opal because Opal's the "bad guy" who always gives her more work to do, and Opal hates Holly because Holly's the "Good Guy" who always gets in her way.

Story two: Holly hates Opal because she deeply cares about her and is upset when Opal does things that hurt her and others, and Opal hates Holly because Opal is in love with Holly, but Holly's job makes it so that Holly always has to stop her plans, and Opal is upset because she sees it as Holly, a person she's in love with, wants to hinder rather than help her.

I would rather read the second story. Even if it is as simple as the first one, there's still a level of codependency that can't be denied.

Holly would be nothing without Opal, because Opal gives her something to fight against, and Opal would be nothing without Holly because Holly gives her a reason to improve her plans.

The two need each other. I think that may extend to the romantic aspect, and possibly into one of sexual tension between the two characters. Especially since Opal is always trying to be her most feminine in competition with Holly.

But again, which is more interesting? Opal is trying to be more feminine than Holly, or Opal is trying to be more feminine for Holly?

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by ShortRebel » Fri 10th Apr 2009

Now,I can't muster any legit evidence towards my theory,it's more of a vibes thing really,and I really think that she's bi. Like, I can tell the difference between bi and lesbian surprisingly well (don't even ask),and Holly just feels kinda bi to me, you know?I just think it Does fit her character really well. However, I think that she could be closeted, confused, or unaware. Like, she's looking at other women with a level of sexual attraction and she's not really sure why. I agree though, that it makes her character seem much more deep and real.
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by _i_dont_get_it » Fri 24th Apr 2009

xDD
I think this theory is really fitting.
I don't remember any evidence that made me think Holly was lesbian or bi, but I might just have to look again through the series.
Sometimes people who are bi don't really show it, only until they find someone of the same gender that they think is majorly attractive, ya know?
Maybe Holly hasn't found that person yet.
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by p5ychic » Tue 28th Jul 2009

I wrote a story based around this premise if you'd care to read it: http://artemisfowl.fangathering.com/fan ... ce/flygirl

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by artemisfowlrocks » Sat 1st Aug 2009

u guys are crazy. holly rox and she is anything but lesbian or any of that bad stuff

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by p5ychic » Thu 27th Jan 2011

artemisfowlrocks wrote:u guys are crazy. holly rox and she is anything but lesbian or any of that bad stuff
There's nothing bad about being a lesbian, and it's kind of intolerant of you to say that someone can't rock just because they're gay.

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by E.N.HA » Thu 27th Jan 2011

I fully agree, P5YCHIC, someone who's gay can still 'rock', but you have to admit that the gay lifestyle has some very serious physical drawbacks, and statistics show that the relationships do tend to last for a shorter time, which is a social and emotional hazard. Aside from my Christian beliefs (I love homosexuals as people but thoroughly disagree with the practice), I don't think that it would be responsible of Colfer to promote homosexuality in his books. A lot of young people read them and the physical drawbacks are simply too obvious to ignore. The practices are really messed up.
Besides, I don't really know where you guys are getting the evidence for Holly being anything but heterosexual. She's only EVER had heterosexual contact. Why does someone need to be bi or gay just because they care about someone? I'm not homophobic - some of my friends are gay and I love them to pieces - but I seriously think Colfer did not intend, and should not intend, for Holly to be gay.
*makes peace sign* Good discussion, though! :D
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by Jayjay » Tue 1st Mar 2011

well, i'd rather she was lesbian than with MY Arty
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by jsreed5 » Mon 7th Mar 2011

I would not be surprised in the least if Holly was bisexual or lesbian, but I don't really think about it any more than I think about Artemis being bisexual or gay. I've always felt that Holly was so committed to the mission of the LEP that she simply didn't think about a relationship much. She just doesn't strike me as the type who would spend a lot of time on a love life, at least not while she's in the "prime" of her LEP career.

Artemis I definitely feel that way about, but that's for completely different reasons and the subject of another thread.

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by p5ychic » Sun 27th Mar 2011

E.N.HA wrote:I fully agree, P5YCHIC, someone who's gay can still 'rock', but you have to admit that the gay lifestyle has some very serious physical drawbacks, and statistics show that the relationships do tend to last for a shorter time, which is a social and emotional hazard. Aside from my Christian beliefs (I love homosexuals as people but thoroughly disagree with the practice), I don't think that it would be responsible of Colfer to promote homosexuality in his books. A lot of young people read them and the physical drawbacks are simply too obvious to ignore. The practices are really messed up.
Besides, I don't really know where you guys are getting the evidence for Holly being anything but heterosexual. She's only EVER had heterosexual contact. Why does someone need to be bi or gay just because they care about someone? I'm not homophobic - some of my friends are gay and I love them to pieces - but I seriously think Colfer did not intend, and should not intend, for Holly to be gay.
*makes peace sign* Good discussion, though! :D
Okay, you just said like ten offensive things.

First of all, there are no physical drawbacks to being gay. None at all. I know Gay people who are way healthier than me, both mentally and physically. I know this one girl who is a Lesbian, and she's probably going to live to be 120 she's so healthy.

Secondly, homosexual relationships are as stable as heterosexual relationships. I've known dozens of people in terrible heterosexual relationships but never have I met someone who was in an unhealthy homosexual relationship.

Thirdly, the implication that having a gay character "promotes homosexuality" is just plain wrong. If you're gay, you're born gay. If you're straight, you're born straight. You can't encourage someone to be homosexual if they're not, you can only encourage someone to be okay with who they already are. That's why I support J.K. Rowling in making Dumbledore gay, because gay kids need role models. It's also why I like that Captain Jack Harkness is bisexual, because there are almost NO role models for bisexual kids. For recommended reading, I suggest you listen to Lady Gaga's "Born this way." Despite a couple of slightly offensive words, the message is basically sound.

I'm not saying Colfer DOES intend for Holly to be gay or bi, I think he SHOULD, though. Think about the target market for Artemis Fowl: Young teens who, like Artemis, probably have always felt like they don't quite fit in with the people around them. Add that to the fact that they're just becoming adults and discovering who they're attracted to. You don't think there might be a lot of overlap with kids who are discovering they're gay or bisexual? I just think that if they have a positive role model in their favorite books, they might feel a little bit better about who they are.

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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by ArtyRocks » Sun 27th Mar 2011

i disagree completely about Holly being a lesbien. How would u like to be called one too?!? i bet u wouldnt like it either
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by Bang Your Drum » Sun 27th Mar 2011

ArtyRocks wrote:i disagree completely about Holly being a lesbien. How would u like to be called one too?!? i bet u wouldnt like it either
:evil: :hand: :tantrum: :modpower: :microwave: :-x

I wouldn't mind at all because it's not entirly untrue, and even if it was why would it be offensive? Many people make stereotypes about how homosexuals act or dress. You could as esaily say Artemis is gey becuase of his mannerisms but he probaly isn't. I think Holly beign a lesbian would be an interesting concept to explore.

Also young lesbians need more postive role models, both real (like Ellen or Tegan and Sara Quin) and fictional (Willow from Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
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Re: Holly, the lesbian

Post by p5ychic » Mon 28th Mar 2011

ArtyRocks wrote:i disagree completely about Holly being a lesbien. How would u like to be called one too?!? i bet u wouldnt like it either
:evil: :hand: :tantrum: :modpower: :microwave: :-x
It's not an insult...

I mean, lots of people make stereotypes. I love the theatre, keep my hair neat, and dress well, and lots of people assume I'm gay. I just tell them I'm not and I get on with my life. I don't consider it an insult any more than someone assuming I like my hamburger cooked a different way.

I'm not saying she IS one, I'm saying in MY MIND I like to think of her as bisexual, because it makes her a lot more interesting to me.

Basically, if I were a lady and someone called me a lesbian, I'd be more offended that they think being a lesbian is something to be ashamed of.

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