The Death Penalty

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The Death Penalty

Post by Skyswallow » Sat 13th Oct 2012

First off, I know there is another thread for this topic. But it hasn't been used since 2009, and I don't want to be a necroer. So mods, don't kill me XD
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So. The death penalty. Prisoners who have committed a crime of a certain magnitude are put to death, often with a long waiting period 'on death row'. Should this still exist? Is it morally acceptable?
What does FG think? :D
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by AFrules12 » Sat 13th Oct 2012

I think I've said this before somewhere, but I think that the death penalty is stupid. I think life imprisonment's much worse than dying. Because you die. That's that. You don't feel anything when you're dead. But knowing that you'll be locked up until you die, I think is much worse.
Anyway, that's what I think.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Battery » Sat 13th Oct 2012

I just completely fail to understand the logic in the death penalty.
Someone kills someone
Wow that's really bad, no one should ever do that
Let's kill them
???

Anyhow, I don't think the death penalty is a good thing at all. Like Affy said, imprisonment is more of a punishment in the first place. Besides, I'm not a huge fan of the way courts operate, and if someone innocent is sentenced to death, well... :? There have been a few probable examples of that recently, and I really feel like the judicial system can't possibly be certain enough of someone's guilt every single time that we can chance killing those who are found guilty for certain things.

And I personally am fine with the new topic, I'm going to go lock the old one instead :] )
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Ash Kelp » Sat 13th Oct 2012

"What seperates us from murderers when we kill them?"
Famous quote that's been in all sorts of batman comics, and just in life in general. I agree with it, unless there's certain circumstances you shouldn't kill someone. You're killing a murderer, not killing someone to stop them from murdering someone.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by artytwin » Fri 19th Oct 2012

yeah it's true that the person doesn't really get a punishment by simply dying, but it teaches other people not to kill.
they might think: kill someone---> go to jail---> bust out.
but with death penalty they think: kill someone---> die along with them. not much of a point to it.

but it's true still that it's not much of a punishment...
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Re: The Death Penalty vs. Life Imprisonment

Post by Skyswallow » Fri 19th Oct 2012

Okay, so far as I can tell FG agrees that the death penalty is dumb. That just shows how awesome we are! So, introducing... Life imprisonment. Which do you think is worse? Being locked up for the rest of your life, knowing that you did something wrong and because of that you'll never see the outside world again? Or being killed for the same crime?
Let the debate begin.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Ash Kelp » Fri 19th Oct 2012

Personally I would rather die then do life in prison, this is why I try hard not to do anything that would put me in prison. Personally life is worse because you don't have a chance to escape from it. Laying the guilt aside, Being in Jail for your entire life would suck.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by artytwin » Sat 20th Oct 2012

I'm a little angel :-D :focl:
but i would definitely rather die.
then again... if i develop a telepathic connection with Arty then i could tell him to bust me out of jail and i would be his eternal servant/ wife...
k, getting off topic i know, sorry.

i would definitely prefer to die, spending a lifetime in JAIL is horrible
no i am not obsessed! I JUST LOVE TALKING ABOUT ARTY 24/7!
no i do not love an imaginary person. YES, HE IS REAL! REAL I TELL YOU!
no i am not weird! I AM TOTALLY CRAZY!
If my heart thumps so quickly...When I hear his name
If I drool while reading books...About him everyday
If I cry when his heart...Is full of searing pain
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If I sleep only to wish to wake...and see his shining face
If I eat only to wish to grow ...pointy ears but in dismay
If I live only to dream to join...the fun in his big game
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Randomosity » Tue 19th Feb 2013

Trials for something as serious as murder or terroism can go on for years, or be settled and then come up again in few years when evidence comes up. If the person convicted at the time is killed, they may be proved innocent in a few years time but it would be too late.
Also, just to make something clear, getting the life penalty does not mean life! there's a tarrif, which is the minimum amount of time before a person can be considered for parole.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by The redeem3r » Thu 21st Feb 2013

I for one am for the death penalty. While it may seem like a case of extreme hypocrisy regarding whoever conducts or orders the death penalty, that's not the issue. We allow for killers to stay alive and keep them in better conditions and spend more per capita than we do on students.

New York, for example, spends annually, 56,000 dollars per prisoner. Let that figure sink in.

Economically, which is cheaper, killing the prisoner or letting him live?

Then the issue of ethics comes up. Who are we to kill someone?

If you were a kid, which would make you want to not do anything illegal - knowing that killers go to jail, or knowing that prisoners die? A psychological thread is struck in your head when that comes up, because no one wants to die.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Bang Your Drum » Thu 21st Feb 2013

Actually I think excuting someone is more expensive....
Also the idea of killing someone simply because its cheaper then letting them live, is just chilling to me.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Battery » Fri 22nd Feb 2013

^ That's a pretty good point. :? Also with regards to expenses, keeping someone on death row is more expensive than keeping them in a regular prison, and it's often necessary to keep a prisoner on death row for a very long time because of appeals and other factors. So in the long run, it would probably be more efficient to keep them in a regular prison. In California, changing the sentences of everyone currently on death row to life would save us hundreds of millions of dollars. If what we want is to cut the money we spend on our prisons, we can do that by putting less emphasis on smaller crimes, not killing off those who commit major crimes.
The redeem3r wrote:If you were a kid, which would make you want to not do anything illegal - knowing that killers go to jail, or knowing that prisoners die? A psychological thread is struck in your head when that comes up, because no one wants to die.
Here's the interesting thing though - states that don't have the death penalty have consistently lower murder rates. It might seem logical to say killing those criminals makes people less likely to commit crimes, themselves, but there's no actual figure that supports that claim.
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by Skyswallow » Fri 22nd Feb 2013

^Not only that, but if people in a position of authority are allowed to kill people for doing wrong, then kids and people without good role models will think it's OK to kill people for being bad, which leads to higher murder rates etc. And if you kill someone for killing someone, aren't you a murderer yourself?
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by The redeem3r » Sat 23rd Feb 2013

Bang Your Drum wrote:Actually I think excuting someone is more expensive....
Also the idea of killing someone simply because its cheaper then letting them live, is just chilling to me.
The actual process isn't what is what makes it expensive though. People get sentenced to the death penalty, but 70% of all those sentenced have the ruling overturned to life at the last second - AFTER money has been spent on the trial. That's where the cost goes into. Interestingly enough, the death penalty is only expensive because our legal system conforms to another punishment. (more often than not, life in prison.)

If we were going to transform into a system that, given the crime justifies the end punishment, had nothing against executing a criminal, the financial barriers break down.

I don't condone killing people JUST because it's cheaper, but if there are monetary incentives on top of others, it's only pragmatic to do so.

Artificial Asian wrote:^ That's a pretty good point. :? Also with regards to expenses, keeping someone on death row is more expensive than keeping them in a regular prison, and it's often necessary to keep a prisoner on death row for a very long time because of appeals and other factors. So in the long run, it would probably be more efficient to keep them in a regular prison. In California, changing the sentences of everyone currently on death row to life would save us hundreds of millions of dollars. If what we want is to cut the money we spend on our prisons, we can do that by putting less emphasis on smaller crimes, not killing off those who commit major crimes.
The redeem3r wrote:If you were a kid, which would make you want to not do anything illegal - knowing that killers go to jail, or knowing that prisoners die? A psychological thread is struck in your head when that comes up, because no one wants to die.
Here's the interesting thing though - states that don't have the death penalty have consistently lower murder rates. It might seem logical to say killing those criminals makes people less likely to commit crimes, themselves, but there's no actual figure that supports that claim.
Interesting yes, but also explainable. Those states that have outlawed the death penalty have also, in most cases, limited methods by which criminals can kill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Death ... States.svg

New York City, for example, has lower crime rate and no death penalty, but those to variables do NOT correlate. It's more so the fact that New York has fairly strict gun control relative to the other parts of the country.

On that map I provided, the states that have no death penalty all conveniently have some form of gun control laws, and those that do not have the death penalty are in most cases the states that oppose gun control.

My point being the lower crime rate is not related to the death penalty in any other way than some legislation.

And that being said, the logical claim that you pointed out still stands to reason.

Keep in mind, this coming from a radical peace seeker. This coming from a guy who thinks it's stupid to differentiate ourselves based on religion or country instead of calling ourselves humans. This coming from the guy who thinks that instead of calling ourselves citizens of the United States of America or citizens of Canada, we should call ourselves citizens of Earth. I am in most cases against any further acts of violence (especially military violence), but I like to think of myself as pragmatic. Taking care of criminals instead of punishing them rightfully for their crime is foolish, in my opinion. If these people are going to go so far as to show callous disregard for human life and TAKE human life, than to not punish them in a similar manner is completely maladroit on behalf of the government.
Skyswallow wrote:^Not only that, but if people in a position of authority are allowed to kill people for doing wrong, then kids and people without good role models will think it's OK to kill people for being bad, which leads to higher murder rates etc. And if you kill someone for killing someone, aren't you a murderer yourself?
That's where the question of legality blends in with the question of morality. What kid do you know looks at Michael Bloomberg and says, "I want to be just like him!"?

Kids don't look to politics for role models, they reserve that role to celebrities and idols. And the legislation would pass, but just like we don't publicize it every time someone gets life in prison, we wouldn't publicize it every time someone is sentenced to death. Celebrities do more harm NOW than politicians could do if legislation for the death penalty was passed.

If a homeless man killed your parents (sorry to use such a grim example, but I feel it gets my point across the best.) and got life in prison, would you not be upset that technically speaking, his living standards increased? Shakespeare addressed this in Hamlet to an extent. Hamlet's slain father wanted him to kill the killer, but Hamlet overthought it. While the man whom has killed his father was praying, Hamlet put the sword up to his head but thought to himself, "If he's praying to absolve his sins and I kill him now, what type of justice is that to send my father's killer to heaven and my father to hell?"

If someone steals something from a store or robs a bank, I don't think that he should get the death penalty. Other punishments make more sense. All that being said, it would by idyllic, would it not, if we could save the money on the legalities, execute a criminal, and both financially and socially profit off of it? (profit being used in a positive connotation of course.) I, personally, think that given that though, to not support the death penalty is vacuous. (I'm not calling anyone here stupid. I'm open minded, if you can make me think otherwise I'm willing to accept it.)
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Re: The Death Penalty

Post by The redeem3r » Sun 24th Feb 2013

Besides, if what you say is true, and life in prison is a much worse punishment than death, what is it that makes us more inhumane? Prolonging a person's life just so he or she can suffer or ending it so they can both pay for their crime and not have to suffer?
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