If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

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HollyShort9
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If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by HollyShort9 » Sun 4th Apr 2010

learn morals?

NOTE. There will be religion brought into this topic. I would like it if everyone remains as polite and open-minded as possible. If I see even the BEGINNINGS of a flame war and it's not being taken under control, I WILL ask the mods to close this debate. I do NOT wish to offend anyone in ANY way.

If public schools do not teach Ten Commandments, do not mention God, how do the children learn morals? Whose morals?
The schools don't even teach law. How are kids going to learn what is right and wrong? It is not learned by diffusion.

I think children of any age, can hear about Jesus, and what really happened Passover and Easter. Children are smarter than you think. Few people teach and talk to children. Seems many parents think their children are stupid. Sure, they have their silly, child like moments. But to determine all conversation on such childish times is foolish.
Parents say they need adult time, they were with the kids all day. You can speak as an adult to children, and teach them. How else are they going to learn?

Are you going to let the public schools teach the morals? No Ten Commandments. They don't even teach legal law.
So how are the kids learning morals?

Just last week in Trenton, NJ, a 15 year old, sold her 7 year old step sister into prostitution. The 15 year old, probably without adult guidance and conversation, had sex with many young men, adults for money . This child was in charge of babysitting her 7 year old step sister. The 15 year old wanted to party, and instead of leaving the child outside of the apartment, she gave the 7 year old money and told her to let the men touch her, however they wanted to. Well, any man even touching a 7 year old is a pig, and then they held down the 7 year old and raped her. Can you believe this?
Who is to blame? The parents?
School? Society?
Yeah let's get rid of God, we don't need Him. We don't need to teach His commandments--this is what happens with that mentality.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 4th Apr 2010

Hey, this also comes under "Why don't certain schools let us sing His songs in chorus?" Because it causes offense.

Listen, if schools started pushing God's commandments down school's throats do you wanna know what would happen? Rebellion, suing, and worse. HS9, you must remember there are other religions out there. I would so get out of public school in a heart beat if they started teaching us about the commandments, because that's why I don't go to church.

On the better subject, I know, many of you are going to ask about Greek Mythology. It is taught because it has good literatures and gives teachers opurtunities for projects and what not.

What if the children in the schools don't want to learn them?

We don't go around with our teachers saying "God doesn't exist so forget him"

So why teach us about your God?

It wouldn't be right. It would destroy our Freedom Of Religion, in fact the commandments would be teaching Freedom from Religion, which is partially why colonists ran to the New World.

HS9, it just wouldn't be right. People against God would sue in a heartbeat, and many schools would be put down due to this. I know people who don't even say the pledge because it had "Under God" In it, what would happen if we began teaching the commandments? It wouldn't be pretty at all..

And to your ending question, that's what church is for. It is like a public school for the religion. And almost every family who is christian/catholic has the Holy Bible in their house, they are taught in there, also. There are many other places we can teach the Commandments other than public schools.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by HollyShort9 » Sun 4th Apr 2010

Well, I think that schools should teach the Commandments. Not push them down throats, but teach them.
Maybe so that it wouldn't cause offense, there could be an optional Christian class. For kids who were willing to learn about it, who wouldn't get offended.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 4th Apr 2010

That would be fine. And, if public schools taught them for a required class, it would be pushing it down their throats, because they would have no choice but to learn them..

But the elective Christian class would be perfectly fine with me!
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by Battery » Sun 4th Apr 2010

HollyShort9 wrote:Well, I think that schools should teach the Commandments. Not push them down throats, but teach them.
Maybe so that it wouldn't cause offense, there could be an optional Christian class. For kids who were willing to learn about it, who wouldn't get offended.
That's a really good idea, actually. My high school already has a bible study club, along with a weekly prayer meeting at lunch for those people who want to express their religion at school and learn about Christianity. However, if there were a Christianity class, there would naturally have to be a Judaism class and a Muslim class, if no more major religions as well. I do think it's a good idea to teach it to those who want to learn, though.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by HollyShort9 » Sun 4th Apr 2010

Well, really, though, I'm curious.
If kids aren't allowed to learn or talk about things like the Ten Commandments in schools, how do they learn morals? Because we learn our morals through God (or at least, Christians do).
I just think it'd be a smart idea to have a class where kids could learn something like that.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by Battery » Sun 4th Apr 2010

That's true for Christians, I'm sure. I, however, learned my morals from my parents at a very young age. You don't have to read something in the Bible to know it's right or wrong (morally speaking).

I do think that study of religion should be optional in schools, but for the most part, cultural teachings and the likes are kept in the home. It is also partly human nature and a natural sense of wrong and right that keeps us from killing each other and stealing. We don't need to be taught what we already feel.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by p5ychic » Mon 5th Apr 2010

This isn't to knock or support religion, but the Ten Commandments aren't the only source of morals. When I was little, I didn't need to be scared into behaving with the threat of god being angry if I did bad things, I just had to know that if I did bad things, it would hurt other people.

For example, my parents taught me not to steal by saying things like "Imagine if someone took your stuff away from you. That's how other people feel if you steal from them." And I knew not to steal. I didn't need to think "If I steal, I'll go to hell," I just needed to think "if I steal from someone, they won't like me" and so I didn't steal.

This may be hard to hear, but religion is not the only source of morality. Morality is basically treating others the way you would want to be treated. The Ten Commandments are essentially the same thing, only they add "or else god will be mad" at the end. So really, teaching the kids the golden rule directly just cuts out the middleman.

I was taught to honor my mother and father not because God said so, but because they created me, fed me, clothed me, paid for everything I needed, and provided for me all the luxuries they could afford. I owe them everything I have, so I will honor them.

I was taught not to kill not because it's a sin, but because it hurts their friends and family, and I wouldn't like it if someone killed me or my loved ones.

I don't steal because I wouldn't want to be stolen from.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the Ten Commandments are just one of many delivery systems for the Golden Rule, and that public schools can teach the Golden Rule directly and not bother with the rules of any one religion.

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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by jsreed5 » Mon 5th Apr 2010

I couldn't have phrased it better myself.

The main thing I always think about in issues such as this is the fact that every major religion has the Golden Rule in it somewhere, despite the theologies behind them being radically different. It seems to me that the Golden Rule itself has no religious bias as it holds true in all religions and in all situations. It has to have some universal truth in it if it came from so many independent cultures and societies.

I'd say that the Ten Commandments are all extensions of that rule, even the ones concerning God - for example, if you were God, you'd want your creation to praise the fact that you were the one that made them, just as the Bible says He wants you to praise Him for being the one to create you.

A string of paradoxes then jump into my mind, but that would be a HUGE digression so I won't mention them here.

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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by cookieninja » Mon 5th Apr 2010

HollyShort9 wrote:If public schools do not teach Ten Commandments, do not mention God, how do the children learn morals? Whose morals?
Well... I think their parents might just teach them the important morals. All of my family taught me morals. Some morals are just given.
Then again, I was learning about the supposed murder of King Tut when I was six.
HollyShort9 wrote:The schools don't even teach law. How are kids going to learn what is right and wrong? It is not learned by diffusion.
Your school might not have, but here in small town Canada, I was learning Law every year since Grade 1. The whole Law process as a matter of fact.

Okay now, I totally disagree with the teaching of ANY religion in ANY schools that do not have a religious purpose to begin with. Here, most of the private schools are Christan.
I believe that the Ten Commandments have a basic purpose of morals, and they are a good basis of any mans morals, minus the stuff about God. I believe Jesus was a REAL man with a real purpose to spread the love of his god and peace. Because I think that Jesus was purely a hippie, minus the illegal stuff.
Anyways, I'm getting off topic. There are many ways to learn morals.
The morals of one god in particular should not be taught in public school. It's PUBLIC school open to the general PUBLIC, equaling people of many religions. If they started teaching the Muslim morals and you were Christan would you like it. No, you wouldn't.
If they started teaching Christan morals in my school, I would be out before they could teach the first lesson.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by Julissa Holly Fowl » Mon 5th Apr 2010

Y'know, Demi, that would be a great idea if it weren't for a few issues:
1. It's been said: Non-Christians wouldn't like being forced to learn Christian laws, when they don't have to follow them for any reason other than moral ones.
2. Hey, wouldn't it just be simpler to teach the Pagan Rede? Harm None? With the state of America's childrens' intelligence nowadays, I think it would strain their brains a lot less.
3. Again, as others have said, there are other *cough*better*cough* ways to learn morals. Why don't we teach those instead?
4. A little thing called 'separation of church and state.' I don't know how many other countries have this in place, but, as far as it affects schools, any school that teaches religion is disqualified from getting government money. Therefore, they have to charge tuition. Every child in America is, by law, entitled to a free education. See where I'm going?
Which is better: teaching the commandments to the lucky few children who could afford tuition while the rest go uneducated, or keeping things non-religious and ensuring education for everyone?
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by HollyShort9 » Mon 5th Apr 2010

@Cookie: Canada is different than America. And don't tell me I'm "knocking Americans" because I AM American, but remember how twenty years ago America was called the land of opportunity? *snort* Now it's the land of suppressed religion and debt. (Okay, seriously, I'm not meaning to offend fellow Americans. Like I said before, I /am/ American. That's just the way things are.)
4. A little thing called 'separation of church and state.' I don't know how many other countries have this in place, but, as far as it affects schools, any school that teaches religion is disqualified from getting government money. Therefore, they have to charge tuition. Every child in America is, by law, entitled to a free education. See where I'm going?
*starts muttering to herself about how stupid the government is etc. etc. etc.*
Well, what if there wasn't a Christian class, but they taught the Ten Commandments. Not like, "This is the Ten Commandments and blah blah blah", but with the littler ones, they teach them some of the /phrases/ of the Ten Commandments, like "You shall not kill", then back it up with something like what P5 said, like "If someone killed your mom or your dad, how would you feel?"
(I'm devious, I like finding the loopholes in stuff like that.)
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by Julissa Holly Fowl » Mon 5th Apr 2010

But then it wouldn't be teaching the commandments, which is what this debate is about.
If we teach the general idea 'Harm None' and all its offshoots and derivatives, I'm all for it. But saying that "such-and-such moral obligation is a commandment and therefore you shouldn't do it, how would you feel if it was done to you?" just doesn't cut it, in my opinion.
Really, if morals are going to be taught in school, then there needs to be an acceptable, government-regulated standard.
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Re: If public schools don't teach Ten Commandments, how do kids

Post by BlackOpal » Mon 5th Apr 2010

I am locking this topic. Several places in this forum can hold this discussion.

Good and Evil? can help you discuss what Good and Evil are and how they should be enforced.

Blue Laws gives you a place to discuss legislation that is affected by Christianity.

Public Schooling vs. Home schooling gives you an outlet to discuss different forms of school and which ones are ideal in imparting morals on the children and otherwise.

In The Bible you can discuss the validity of the morals and ethics listed in the Bible.

Religion in General is a great place to debate the way religion can be useful, including how it affects morality.

Religious for the Wrong Reasons? is a thread where the arguments on using religion for morality when it can be found elsewhere can go.

The Trouble with Tolerance can be used for discussion on political correctness in schools.

Now, I want this to be clear: I am NOT closing this topic because I have any grudge against Christianity. It's just that these debates are clogging up the forum, and there can't be a dozen threads that wind up as the same basic discussion.

Now, I THOUGHT that we had a general "Christianity" thread, but apparently we do not. I might consider opening one of those and all future Christianity debates can fall under that heading.

This debate is far too specific. Of the many religions in the world it is just a little silly to single out Christianity this way. It would mean that a new thread would have to be opened up to debate each religion's morality and whether it should be taught in schools. As a suggestion I'd say that when you start debate threads let them be on wider topics that are all-inclusive. It helps with organization. :) If we have thirty topics on what is essentially the same subject it gets a little messy.

So locked. I will consider opening up a general Christianity thread. If you have a problem with this please feel free to PM me. :)
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