(Would/Do) You Like God?

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Feb 2010

Visorak16 wrote:I have information from an omniscient source. I believe that I am in a position to know. You have not proven that we are not in a position to know.
But we don't know for sure if your omniscient source exists. You might think you know for sure, but can you prove to us beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's real? Until then, Your omniscient source is no more reliable than the egyptians'.

And you can't prove a negative anyway, so saying "You haven't proven we're not" is like saying "The rules of football don't say I can't use a gun, therefore I can." Claiming "You haven't proven the negative" is a severe logical fallacy.
Visorak16 wrote:
We do not know if they are FALSE or TRUE yet so calling them false is incorrect as calling your god false or true is.
Following your logic, it is incorrect to call them not false, which is what you did.
In what way is that following his logic? It works both ways, you can't say that any God is real or not real with any certainty. It is incorrect to call any deity real or fake with complete certainty because it is impossible to be completely certain. Proof denies faith, and without faith, God is nothing.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 17th Feb 2010

We're getting off topic here. This isn't to debate whether God exists or which Gods are right, it's asking whether we like God.

Well... It depends on your conception of God for me, I suppose. Is God a force, are we all part of God? Is God closer to the perception of the Greek Gods, the Hindu God or the Judeo-Christian God? I feel like it's too hard to answer.

If there is a benevolent God, or a benevolent side of God, I'm going to have to say that we get on quite well, yes.

Aka I like the Light God, in Zoroastrianism-type conception.
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Feb 2010

BlackOpal wrote:We're getting off topic here. This isn't to debate whether God exists or which Gods are right, it's asking whether we like God.

Well... It depends on your conception of God for me, I suppose. Is God a force, are we all part of God? Is God closer to the perception of the Greek Gods, the Hindu God or the Judeo-Christian God? I feel like it's too hard to answer.

If there is a benevolent God, or a benevolent side of God, I'm going to have to say that we get on quite well, yes.

Aka I like the Light God, in Zoroastrianism-type conception.
I like God sometimes, like when he's giving me good grades or helping my dad get a job, but when he's allowing Genocide to occur in Darfur or miscarrying a baby a week before it's supposed to be born, I don't like him as much.

Because if God claims to be omnipotent, then he takes responsibility for everything that happens, good or bad. So it really depends on what he's doing at the moment, whether or not I like him.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 17th Feb 2010

P5YCHIC wrote:
BlackOpal wrote:We're getting off topic here. This isn't to debate whether God exists or which Gods are right, it's asking whether we like God.

Well... It depends on your conception of God for me, I suppose. Is God a force, are we all part of God? Is God closer to the perception of the Greek Gods, the Hindu God or the Judeo-Christian God? I feel like it's too hard to answer.

If there is a benevolent God, or a benevolent side of God, I'm going to have to say that we get on quite well, yes.

Aka I like the Light God, in Zoroastrianism-type conception.
I like God sometimes, like when he's giving me good grades or helping my dad get a job, but when he's allowing Genocide to occur in Darfur or miscarrying a baby a week before it's supposed to be born, I don't like him as much.

Because if God claims to be omnipotent, then he takes responsibility for everything that happens, good or bad. So it really depends on what he's doing at the moment, whether or not I like him.

Huh, yeah, that's basically what I mean. XD

Omnipotent and omni-benevolent don't tend to go hand in hand, eh?

That's why I said I like the Light God. XD S/he's a good tiem. Maybe the Dark God has some greater purpose. Maybe s/he needs to be there. Doesn't mean I like her/him.

I feel like I need to be able to understand God before I pass judgment on him, before I can have an opinion.
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by Visorak16 » Wed 17th Feb 2010

What we need to understand is that God is omnipotent, but He is also completely just. However, God is also completely merciful. If God had no mercy, then everyone would automatically die and go to hell as soon as he stepped out of line. On the other hand, if God were not just, then He would not punish evil, and evil would completely engulf the world. God knows everything that is going on in the world and He promises to work through them. Ultimately, it is because of our sin that we die, but God in His infinite mercy sent His Son to die on the cross so that we could live with Him in Heaven.
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Feb 2010

Visorak16 wrote:What we need to understand is that God is omnipotent, but He is also completely just. However, God is also completely merciful. If God had no mercy, then everyone would automatically die and go to hell as soon as he stepped out of line. On the other hand, if God were not just, then He would not punish evil, and evil would completely engulf the world. God knows everything that is going on in the world and He promises to work through them. Ultimately, it is because of our sin that we die, but God in His infinite mercy sent His Son to die on the cross so that we could live with Him in Heaven.
Way to totally not respond to anyone, again. If God is omnipotent AND completely just, then why do innocent children get cancer? Why are their serial killers and child rapists? If god was truly omnipotent AND truly just, then he would have the power and willingness to stop those things. If he was completely and truly good AND has power over everything, then nothing bad would ever happen to good people. The concept of a perfect, omnipotent being in an imperfect world does not hold up.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by Feandril » Wed 17th Feb 2010

P5YCHIC wrote:Way to totally not respond to anyone, again. If God is omnipotent AND completely just, then why do innocent children get cancer? Why are their serial killers and child rapists? If god was truly omnipotent AND truly just, then he would have the power and willingness to stop those things. If he was completely and truly good AND has power over everything, then nothing bad would ever happen to good people. The concept of a perfect, omnipotent being in an imperfect world does not hold up.
Thing is, God's justice isn't always what's directly and obviously good for some people. Sure, all the malice in the world is bad... but it's real source and beginning lies in us. It is our sin which made the world fall and it is us who brought the evil and weakness and corruption in it. So by stopping these things from happening, God would basically need to fix everything himself, which he certainly is capable, but not willing not due to malevolence, but exactly because it is this sense of freedom, whether we are aware of it or not, gives us sense of a meaningful existence. Without it, we are not human.


What is it with all Christian topics lately? I mean... why not make "Christianity" and discuss everything there...?
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by JLHxXxX » Wed 17th Feb 2010

*Grins* Vis, I must ask, if we cannot scientifically proove your God is real, what makes you so positive all the other gods AREN'T real?

A bit off topic, but the hypocricy is just amusing me!
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by cookieninja » Thu 18th Feb 2010

Visorak16 wrote:Following your logic, it is incorrect to call them not false, which is what you did.
No I did not. I said it was incorrect to call them either false or true. Your just looking at the false part of it.

I'm sorry if that was off topic I'm just defending the gods who have no one to stand for them.
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by JLHxXxX » Fri 19th Feb 2010

Right on Cookie, I feel the same way!))
Waiting for the bus that never comes is silly. Once you start to walk, every opportunity will be stopping you in your tracks to greet you.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by jsreed5 » Mon 1st Mar 2010

This thread is SCREAMING Epicurus' Riddle:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
The Christian answer is that he is willing and able, but he is more willing to let us do the deciding for ourselves. Personally I've never found that answer too satisfying, which is one reason why I've never completely subscribed to Christianity.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by BlackOpal » Tue 2nd Mar 2010

Feandril wrote:
P5YCHIC wrote:Way to totally not respond to anyone, again. If God is omnipotent AND completely just, then why do innocent children get cancer? Why are their serial killers and child rapists? If god was truly omnipotent AND truly just, then he would have the power and willingness to stop those things. If he was completely and truly good AND has power over everything, then nothing bad would ever happen to good people. The concept of a perfect, omnipotent being in an imperfect world does not hold up.
Thing is, God's justice isn't always what's directly and obviously good for some people. Sure, all the malice in the world is bad... but it's real source and beginning lies in us. It is our sin which made the world fall and it is us who brought the evil and weakness and corruption in it. So by stopping these things from happening, God would basically need to fix everything himself, which he certainly is capable, but not willing not due to malevolence, but exactly because it is this sense of freedom, whether we are aware of it or not, gives us sense of a meaningful existence. Without it, we are not human.


What is it with all Christian topics lately? I mean... why not make "Christianity" and discuss everything there...?

We could change the title to "Would/Do you like a hypothetical Ultimate Being? :D
This could go to all conceptions of God.

For instance, the Hindu conception of God. Now, you wouldn't necessarily have to LIKE , say, Shiva or Kali if you chose one of them as the ultimate manifestation of God. You would have to worship them and love their good side, their just side, and understand why they do what they do... I don't know if I'd LIKE them...

Zoroastrianism version of "God". Light and Dark, equal opposing forces. Well, I'm going to like the Light side and fight the Dark side. No way I couldn't like the Light god. Ahura Mazda seems like a pretty neat guy. The Daevas, though... Dunno, trying to undo creation seems a bit low.

I'm not going to say I'm a huge fan of the Greek Gods. I mean, they're fun characters, but if they're "god", well...

The Primordial Gods especially...

Marduk, too... He's a bit too war-esque for me.

Would I like God depends on what exactly is meant by this. One overriding, all-powerful, all-knowing being? Gods of contrast? What?

And please do not start a debate on the existence of God. This "debate" is going to have to be more of a discussion because for us to debate the likeability of God we'd have to agree on what God is.
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by jsreed5 » Wed 3rd Mar 2010

So I guess this would really be more of a "Which (if any) gods do you like and why" deal? Because I don't really know too much about gods of religions other than Christianity, Judaism, Islam, the occult, and Buddhism.

I'm naturally an inquisitive person, and I need to know the answers to things, if only for future reference. I really hate being deliberately withheld answers, especially when I know the person doing the withholding really DOES know the answer and just doesn't want to tell me. Because of that I can't stand it when people tell me to put an issue in God's hands (in a christian sense) and pray that he'll take care of it. The entire concept almost seems to oppose the idea of proactive intervention on the part of us humans.

I actually like the Muslim concept of Allah, in that they interpret his commandments as actually going out into the world and doing something. (Of course, radical muslims can take that to mean blowing up themselves and anyone in the vicinity, but remember that fanatics in any religion can do pretty stupid things.) I don't subscribe to Muslim myself though because of the huge role of ritual and ceremony in an Islamic lifestyle. I admire their dedication, but I'm too willing to challenge the norm to unquestioningly start following such a demanding way of life. (Or maybe that's just me making up excuses so I don't admit I'm lazy ><)

Buddhism theology is, to me at least, REALLY confusing and hard to follow. But one thing I admire a lot about East Asian culture (and one thing heavily influenced by Buddhism) is respect for ANYONE older than you, including a sibling, a parent, or a rival. I like the teachings of the Buddha, too - the context of his messages speak to me better than messages presented in Christianity, though I can't really tell why.

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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 3rd Mar 2010

Buddha isn't technically a God unless you're looking at him as an incarnation of Vishnu in Hinduism. But that theology (word usage? maybe?) is different than pure Buddhist thought.

But yeah, I see what you mean. :)

Buddha would be the sort of God I liked. He seems nice enough. But he doesn't do godly things in the same way than Vishnu himself does. He just sort of teaches. But he's kind and intelligent, and that makes sense.

Yeah, I figure that's a good way to conduct the debate. I suppose you could answer which conception of God makes most sense to you in the world and whether you like it?
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Re: (Would/Do) You Like God?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 3rd Mar 2010

BlackOpal wrote:He just sort of teaches. But he's kind and intelligent, and that makes sense.
It's funny, actually, that the god I like wields no power whatsoever. A god with no power holds no responsibility, and it puts the power in the hands of humans and makes us responsible for our own actions.

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