Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

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HollyShort9
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Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by HollyShort9 » Mon 31st Aug 2009

Sometimes I think that Christians are some of the most persecuted people in the world today. Christians form the largest religious group in the world, yet we are the most ridiculed.

In the media, it is deemed acceptable to make fun of Jesus, but if you make fun of any other religion then it's not acceptable (as far as I can tell). How is this fair?

Christians are often mocked for believing in God, and not following commonly accepted scientific theories (e.g. Big Bang, evolution), but would they act the same if it was a Muslim or a Jew? Why are their beliefs respected, but ours are not?

I'm not saying that there aren't other groups that are also persecuted, but it just seems to me that people seem to ignore the persecution that Christians get. Does anyone agree/disagree?
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by JLHxXxX » Mon 31st Aug 2009

I go against all religions Holly, but I mostly know most about Christianity, since I use to be one. I think it's horrible how people mock and whatnot for religions. Debate and news you fight for what you know, cause that's kinda what it is for, but that is only when i discuss against God, and Jesus.
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by HollyShort9 » Mon 31st Aug 2009

It's like, I'm not persecuting you for anything, JLH, but the thing is that Christians aren't respected at all by some people. Like, for instance, I can't say anything about God in dance class or someone will start up a fight for it. Or if I have a signature about God, Alanna-Lena Zelen gets mad because apparently I'm "offending" people by having it in my signature.
It's like, we're persecuted for believing and worshipping a creator... is that against the law?
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by JLHxXxX » Mon 31st Aug 2009

Pfff... palease, do you know how many federals recommend christianity???
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Meova » Mon 31st Aug 2009

I'm against mocking people for their religion. Except when the other agrees with you mocking it, of course, but that usually only happens between friends and stuff like that so that's not an issue here. But what does irk me, is why it's about Christians again. You know what? You can mock every single religion there is. If I tell people I do magic sometimes, they laugh in my face and tell me I should grow up. If I say I'm a Wiccan, they think I watched too much Charmed and tell me that witches do not exist. And guess what? I don't care. Let people think what they want to, it's my religion, I chose for it and if they don't like it, to hell they ride.
I think the real issue here is not that people mock religions, but that the religious people can't take it when other people mock/don't believe in their religion... I'm sorry for stating it so bluntly but I don't know how to put it any other way. Thing is, people will believe in different things and people will always believe they have it right and someone else will have it wrong. The issue would be solved if people would see that everyone might be right and everyone could also well be wrong.
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by JLHxXxX » Mon 31st Aug 2009

Took the words I've been tryin to say for a long time right outta my mouth Meova (:
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Abiogenesis » Tue 1st Sep 2009

One sentence is needed to answer this question

- Freedom of Speech -

Anyone can make fun of any religion they want, comedians in the UK treat every religion as fair game. I've heard them pass jokes against Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, Creationists and Atheists.

Ridicule is not persecution, do you think scientists are rejected for believing in god and the Bible as a metaphor? No they aren't, there are many scientists who are Christian, Muslim, Jewish and Hindu. The majority of the highest ranking scientists are atheist yes, but of the two million or so qualified biologists in the U.S.A the majority are Christian. What isn't accepted however, is when scientists claim that the world is 6000 years old when such a claim goes against all evidence gathered to date and fail to provide any evidence that hasn't been refuted ten fold.

Anyway another point I would like to make is that the majority of the Christians in the world accept evolution, the U.S.A is the exception to the rule where about 40-48% believe in Creation, that's still the minority. I would never say Christians suffer any side effects from believing in god since about 80% of the world does. It would be pretty weird to have 20% of the world persecuting 80%, in the U.S its more like 85% anyway. One only has to look at the Gallup polls to see that Atheists are the most persecuted people in America, people would rather have a homosexual president than an atheist president, although there is nothing wrong with homosexuals there is a lot of hate for them in some areas of the U.S.

Here are the Gallup polls stats

In 2003, the Pew Research Center conducted a poll on "religion and public life" which asked people about their attitudes towards a variety of groups, including atheists. People's opinions of atheists break down:

Very Favorable: 7%
Mostly Favorable: 27%
Mostly Unfavorable: 19%
Very Unfavorable: 33%

So, only 34% of Americans have at least a mostly favorable attitude towards atheists; 52% have a mostly unfavorable or worse attitude. Opinions about people who are not religious are better:

Very Favorable: 9%
Mostly Favorable: 41%
Mostly Unfavorable: 19%
Very Unfavorable: 14%

So, 50% of Americans have at least a mostly favorable attitude towards the irreligious and just 33% have a mostly unfavorable (or worse) attitude towards them. Compare these figures with attitudes towards Muslims:

Very Favorable: 9%
Mostly Favorable: 38%
Mostly Unfavorable: 19%
Very Unfavorable: 12%

Muslims are thus regarded a bit worse than the non-religious, but much better than atheists. Attitudes towards "Muslim Americans" were even better than this. All of these attitudes translated into whether people are willing to vote for a person for president. Here are the percentages of Americans who, according to this Pew Research Center survey, would refuse to vote for someone based on the relevant characteristic:

Catholic: 8%
Jewish: 10%
Evangelical Christian: 15%
Muslim: 38%
Atheist: 50%

The 50% who would refuse to vote for an atheist is higher than the 48% who answered the same in a 1999 Gallup survey, suggesting that perhaps attitudes towards atheists are getting worse. These overall American attitudes are largely, but not entirely, the product of Christian attitudes. A 1995 study done by Barna revealed that the prejudice and bigotry of born-again Christians towards atheists was almost universal, but still very high among non-Christians.

Here are the numbers of born-again Christians who regard the impact of these groups as negative:

Islam: 71%
Buddhism: 76%
Scientology: 81%
Atheism: 92%


Here are the numbers of non-Christians who view the impact of the same groups as negative:

Islam: 24%
Buddhism: 22%
Scientology: 30%
Atheism: 50%

There's also this which is slightly worrying

Gallup has been asking people about whether they would vote for atheists for president for quite some time. Here are the numbers who have said "no" over the years:

February 1999: 48%
August 1987: 48%
April 1983: 51%
July 1978: 53%
December 1959: 74%
September 1958: 77%
August 1958: 75%

The question was - would you vote for a well qualified president IF they were an Atheist. that means nearly half of Americans wouldn't vote for a very skilled president merely due to the fact he didn't hold their beliefs. That is prejudice. Only 8% said a Catholic president would be bad and 15% said Evangelical Christians would be bad compared to 50% for Atheists. This 'persecution' doesn't seem to really exist, when people judge a president on whether they believe in god or not is prejudice. If they assume that even a good president would be bad because he is an atheist that is prejudice. There is a difference between prejudice and comedians taking a few jokes at Jesus, hell, Christians say I should burn forever and I'm totally wrong and so is the other 5 billion or so people in the world but I'm fine with that. Many TV shows and movies have a religious message or at least an anti-atheist message (Signs, Battlestar Galactica, Knowing) but I don't care because they are all good movies/shows, just as the Life of Brian is an excellent piece of satirical comedy, there are anti-religious movies and shows out there but there are just as many pro-religious ones. That's the beauty of freedom of speech.

If Muslims who practice Sharia law think not believing in their mythological stories should be punished by death I reserve my right to rip their religion a new one, I don't agree with just persecuting a religion because they are religious I do agree with being able to disagree with religion and point out the holes, religion seems to have built up this idea that you are not allowed to say it is wrong or say it is ridiculous despite the fact no other belief, or anything else for that matter, is treated the same way.
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Lord Voldemort » Tue 1st Sep 2009

Well, persecution (in my opinion) is a little more serious than poking fun at something every once in a while. But let's dissect your post and see where I get with it.

"Sometimes I think that Christians are some of the most persecuted people in the world today. Christians form the largest religious group in the world, yet we are the most ridiculed.

In the media, it is deemed acceptable to make fun of Jesus, but if you make fun of any other religion then it's not acceptable (as far as I can tell). How is this fair?"


In your country, perhaps, your maybe your region specifically. Where I live (MN, USA), I hardly ever hear jokes about religion at all, but then I don't watch a lot of TV. It may be if you are in a predominantly Christian country people will make fun of it a little more, since in my experience people will think it's a more ok to make fun of (less severe than ridicule, I doubt that anyone could really make fun of any religion on National TV in America and stay on national TV) something if they belong to it.

"Christians are often mocked for believing in God, and not following commonly accepted scientific theories (e.g. Big Bang, evolution), but would they act the same if it was a Muslim or a Jew? Why are their beliefs respected, but ours are not?"

Again, maybe since if you're in a predominantly Christian country, there are more Christians, so you're more likely to see a Christian getting denounced for it. However, I do agree that racism against minorities is sometimes overblown and saying something against a majority group is usually considered ok. It's not all right to do that, but fundamentally, majorities are more of a threat to minorities than the other way around (Native Americans, African Americans) so it's not viewed as anything that could spiral off to something worse, like the Holocaust. (I'd go against anyone who tries to convince me I'm going to Hell for believing in evolution or the Big Bang though. )

I'm not saying that there aren't other groups that are also persecuted, but it just seems to me that people seem to ignore the persecution that Christians get. Does anyone agree/disagree?

Yes, I would agree completely. Affirmative Action, (though I'm not white) in the US is a perfect example. If you were to say that priority be given to white people it's racism, but giving priority to minorities isn't. I don't think it's that serious of an issue though (with Christians), because it just doesn't seem to happen that much, (well, maybe more because the majority of the population is Christian, but if you take cases per 1000 of population or something) and it's less serious (A comedian making a joke about it on TV, for example. Maybe offensive to some people, but most will just brush it off as a joke). You could see a Muslim family specifically searched extra at an airport, but probably not a Christian one. Maybe I'm going along with the "people tend to ignore majority persecution" thing, but it's my conclusion.

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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Visorak16 » Fri 4th Sep 2009

As far as I know, Christianity is the most persecuted religion, because there are a decent amount of countries who kill you if you are Christian. Such as, China(I read that they have persecuted loads of religions), Iraq(mostly be terrorist, not government sanctioned), Afghanistan(again, now it's mostly terrorists), and others. Just a word of advice, HS9, stop worrying about it. The Bible says that since the world persecuted Jesus, then don't be surprised when you are persecuted. Stand up for you faith, stand up for your rights, and stand up for the truth, but you don't need to start a debate thread about this. The Bible says we are supposed to count it as joy to be persecuted for Christ's sake. It isn't right, and it sure isn't fun, but it is the quasi-norm.


(btw, in America, people are trying to sue pastors for "hate speech". They make a big deal about us saying that it is wrong to be gay.)
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Lord Voldemort » Fri 4th Sep 2009

Visorak16 wrote:(btw, in America, people are trying to sue pastors for "hate speech". They make a big deal about us saying that it is wrong to be gay.)


Not that I agree with this, but based on that statement, I feel like I could say that you're making a big deal about them saying it's wrong to be Christian. China won't persecute you for being Christian as long as you don't make unsanctioned meetings (they have official Christian groups), though I have doubts that it's really free religious expression. As for the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, I think they specifically hate America, not Christianity any more than other religions.

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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Visorak16 » Fri 4th Sep 2009

I'm not making a big deal about them saying Christianity is wrong(people have been saying that for almost 2000 years). What I ment about the "hate speach" thing is, people in America are trying to make it illegal to speak out against homo-sexuality. We aren't trying to limit people's freedom of speach(but honestly, people could cuss less).
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by iwuvarty » Fri 4th Sep 2009

I'm going to start calling Vis Pastor.
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Lord Voldemort » Fri 4th Sep 2009

Visorak16 wrote:I'm not making a big deal about them saying Christianity is wrong(people have been saying that for almost 2000 years). What I ment about the "hate speach" thing is, people in America are trying to make it illegal to speak out against homo-sexuality. We aren't trying to limit people's freedom of speach(but honestly, people could cuss less).


People do have the right to speak against them, as long as they don't go out and kill them, I suppose. Even the KKK is allowed to do that... (Not that I'm equating the 2)

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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Visorak16 » Fri 4th Sep 2009

Anywho, I didn't really want to get into this debate(we don't have a system to test persecution). I just wanted HS9 to see my first post.
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Re: Persecution (Persecuting Christians)

Post by Abiogenesis » Sat 5th Sep 2009

No, you don't have a right to say 'homosexuality is wrong' because it incites hate against a race of people. This is why the banning of racism isn't considered to be blocking freedom of speech because there are limits on these things, people just can't go around saying something that is thought to be either genetic or caused by conditions in the womb. Either way it is not a persons choice to be homosexual and why would they choose to be gay, it's one of the most hated groups of people in the world.

The thing about religion is it HAS had an almost perfect stance, it has been seen as bad to even speak about it in a negative fashion and it had special treatment (and still does) for thousands of years. It's only recently that it has become acceptable to even knock it and it is still considered taboo. It's also a matter of choice (although that is debatable, it's more a matter of upbringing. If I was born in India I would probably be Hindu, In Saudi Arabia I'd probably be Muslim). It's the equivalent of throwing people who say Santa Claus isn't real into jail, I know Santa Claus is a whole lot more ridiculous that religion but the idea is the same, also when people speak about religion they generally aren't accusing the people who practice it they generally ridicule the religion and its scripture and I see people rip into astrologers just as much as people rip into Muslims or Christians or even Atheists. To be honest I've never heard of anyone in the U.S. being fired for believing in god unless they take it too far and there are plenty of news stories about gays being harassed, Muslims being harassed (the English citizen I flew to America with was searched for two hours for having an Islamic name, hmm).

However I won't deny it, there has been persecution of Christians in the Middle East (by extremists) and in China in the modern day, however in China the only people who are persecuted are those that don't attend government support Churches which isn't as harsh as the death penalty for rebuking Islam/Becoming Atheist in many Middle East countries or the fact that the Boy scouts don't even let atheists in. Yes Christians are persecuted in some backward countries but in the western world, no, they aren't, however the countries in which they are persecuted are developing countries often with very harsh religious or political views (extremists) and one cannot expect such people to think logically about the stupidity of their persecution of any group.
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