Religious for the wrong reasons?

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p5ychic
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Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by p5ychic » Tue 19th Aug 2008

I've been coming across more and more religious nuts lately (Not saying anyone who's religious is a nut, I'm talking people who are nuts about religion) who are clearly religious for the wrong people.

These are the people who cling to every word of their religious text, following even the most ridiculous rules, just for the reward that will come of it.

If you're only being good for your own personal gain, are you really being good, or are you being selfish? Did you help that person because it would make their life better, or because you think it will get you into heaven? Are you helping for the better of life in general, or of your afterlife in particular? It just seems wrong to me. The people who are really good are people who aren't sure they'll be getting into heaven (or even that there is a heaven) but still do good deeds for others, not knowing whether or not they'll be getting a reward for it.

Think about it: Why would God create the book of Genesis if history of the universe he created completely contradicts it? Answer: Because he (or she or it) wants to test whether or not you believe in the religion for the right reason. People who insist on the tests he slipped in there being completely true despite clear evidence to the contrary are the ones who only believe it because they think they have to in order to get rewarded, or the ones who only believe it because they think they have to for fear of punishment. Both of these seem wrong to me. My theory is that God uses these tests to sort out the true good from the kiss-ups. It's actually a brilliant management technique.

Sorry, I'm having a bit of trouble. My family is selling a bunch of rosaries we found at my grandfather's house (not to turn a profit, we're using the money to renovate the house. God would rather my family fix this house for the people living there than for us to have seven or eight rosaries. If you have a beef with this, Matthew 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged." We also want those rosaries to go to people who will use them and take care of them, not to sit away collecting dust in a box in a basement.) and I've been taking some heat from a guy online who thinks I'm committing a crime against god, and it's very clear he's christian for all the wrong reasons.

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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by /b/ » Tue 19th Aug 2008

I love the topic :D

So, the fact is that a man has to believe in something, a God, a Goddess, or a lack of them. But people with strong parental effect on them, that didn't shake it off since they were kids cling to every prejudice they heard from their parents, and the same goes for religion. People don't think about it, or they think they're thinking, but they just take it for granted. That's something they can rely on, a moral code that can justify their behavior, it's much easier then thinking about their actions.

About being good for the universal good, that thing doesn't exist. No man does anything if there isn't something for him. A guy who saves the world and doesn't accept any rewards, but gives them to charity, does that because he doesn't need them to survive, and by giving them away, he gets mental satisfaction and he grows in his own eyes, and eyes of others. So even a good deed like that, a great deed in fact, has psychological self-esteem boost as a background. So even when you sacrifice for another, you're subconsciously thinking "Wow, I'm sacrificing for another, what a good deed, I'm so good for doing this for free..." etc...

So doing a good for a universal good, or at least for not thinking of going to heaven is impossible, but going to heaven needn't be every excuse you make, since then, you are doing things by force. If you do a good deed for your satisfaction, then you'll feel good. If you do it for heaven, then you know you'll feel good for all eternity, but that just ain't it.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by Feandril » Tue 19th Aug 2008

[Statement]: I do not agree with you P5, about the book of Genesis. I believe in God's word, but I also believe what we discover... though, I do not trust completely both. Men are imperfect, and Bible could have been changed. Both can be connected and explained.

There is one thing, however, God gave us just in case we come across such a dilemma... reason. Great philosophizers did a good thinking when it comes to right or wrong (personal and universal), so principles of being good still stand, even though they are not directly connected to religion.

When explaining my faith and reasons for it, I call up on Matthew 7:21...
"Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws."

It's not important whether you call your god EXPLICITLY Jesus, but if you have a pure hearth and soul and good intentions... you should be alright. If nothing else, pray to God for a revelation. You'll discover something eventually. (T)rust me. hehe. :D

Oh and, if you ask me, I think atheists who are good persons(which is extremely rare) have better chances to enter heaven then greatest "believers" who just fear God and death and believe out of fear...
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by BlackOpal » Tue 19th Aug 2008

I agree entirely with Feandril.
I don't think that God was trying to trick us with the Bible, either.
I also hate the people who think that all other strands of Christianity are evil.
You know the type. The "You're better off pagan than slandering God's name by being Methodist/Catholic/Lutheran etc." people.
I think that you're definitely being religious for the wrong reason. It's like those people just want to be superior to others. Does it really matter if you interpret scripture in the most slightly different way? I don't think that it does. D:
I don't have much else to say, Feandril said it all. :D
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by Meova » Tue 19th Aug 2008

I think you can be religious for the wrong reasons. Like P5 said, that you do good deeds just for your own good. That's just selfish, and won't work at all. If you do good, don't expect anything back, and you'll get a lot more in the end than when you want things.

BlackOpal wrote:I also hate the people who think that all other strands of Christianity are evil.
You know the type. The "You're better off pagan than slandering God's name by being Methodist/Catholic/Lutheran etc." people.


It's not just different strands. It's usually also other religions. (I'll take my situation as an example now, ok?) I have a friend, who is a strict Christian. So, she thinks that if I continue the way I live now (as a Wiccan), I'll end up in Hell. But does she hate me for it? Does she try to convert me back? No, she lets me live, because she sees that this makes me happy. But other people have tried to convert me. If I told them how I'd feel, or explained something, they just wouldn't listen, or cut right through me. Gods accepts all people, right? So why don't they? They take the Bible too literally, even though sometimes the Bible contradicts itself. That's not good...
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by p5ychic » Tue 19th Aug 2008

It's like from Clockwork Orange, after Alex is programmed to do only good, it's like he doesn't do good at all because he can no longer choose not to do good. If your choice is "do good or suffer for eternity," you don't really have a choice in the matter.

And I don't think God was trying to trick us with certain parts of the bible either, I think he was trying to test us. There is no good deed without good intentions, and if your intentions are selfish (i.e. I'm only doing this to get into heaven) then the deed isn't good at all. Good things might come of it, but it's still selfish.

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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by saynototrouble » Wed 20th Aug 2008

OOOO p5 that was a good analogy about A Clockwork Orange. Love that book. But you're right. What's the definition of goodness? Is it doing the right thing of your own free will, while still being able to do the inverse, or simply being a do-good machine for the fear of pain or punishment. Put that in religious terms, and I suppose you just get people who could be so for the wrong reasons. Fear, greed, or just to spite other religious people, as previously mentioned.
Now I'm Buddhist so I suppose I could put a different spin on this being non-theistic as I am. We have an inherent sense of right and wrong as gained from Buddha's teachings, and the whole gist of it is really different. It's not like theistic religion where (not trying to be offensive here) it seems as if 'Our god created this wonderful planet and you and everything you love so you should worship and be damn grateful or suffer the consequences.' And then of course as well there's the sometimes selfish motivation of reward, as already mentioned. With us it's more like 'Yeah we know this life sucks but there's a way out of it, just remember what goes around comes around, try and make people happy and you'll be alright.' I turned to Buddhism after being raised Catholic, when I saw the unfairness there and how people were constantly using religion as a weapon. That's why I believe so many people have forgotten fundamental doctrine, peace and love, and become religious for the wrong reasons. Can people become a Buddhist for the wrong reasons? Possibly. Maybe they want to lash out at Christianity or God or their families. Maybe they think just by sitting down and saying 'om' enough times they can go to heaven. That kind of selfishness is going against basic teaching. People who are Buddhist from birth, well it's possible that they stay with it without questioning it once, which for me is the wrong reason and shows stupidity. Thats the ultimate wrong reason for being religious, blind faith. Questioning is part of our human nature and so we should assure ourselves we are happy with what we believe and make decisions before preaching it to others.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 20th Aug 2008

That reminds me of Doubting Thomas. :D
The lesson in that was that you can question Christianity. That if you question Christianity and remain open minded, you will still find your way to it. That Jesus shoves everyones fingers into his wounds, because that's what it takes. :D
I'm too optimistic to be a Buddhist. XD
But that reminded me of something I heard on the radio about Western Buddhism. How people, in Western Society, will be Buddhist for the wrong reasons. They meditate, but they don't give up worldly values. They live in the suburbs, they buy iPods, they steal pens from work, they aren't true Buddhists. They don't renounce title and position.
You can't really reach enlightenment like that.
People can most definitely become Buddhist for the wrong reasons.
Buddhism is about balance. You don't strip yourself of everything pleasurable, but you don't over indulge. People in todays culture tend to find balance in the ways that it's easy for them, and still indulge in what they truly like. One person may give up alcohol, but still eat richly. That's not balance in every aspect of your life.
Many people do become Buddhist without really understanding the teachings. They just like the image of peace and love that they get without. It's almost like being Buddhist is "cool" and people convert just for that.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by Meova » Wed 20th Aug 2008

saynototrouble wrote:I turned to Buddhism after being raised Catholic, when I saw the unfairness there and how people were constantly using religion as a weapon. That's why I believe so many people have forgotten fundamental doctrine, peace and love, and become religious for the wrong reasons. Can people become a Buddhist for the wrong reasons? Possibly. Maybe they want to lash out at Christianity or God or their families. Maybe they think just by sitting down and saying 'om' enough times they can go to heaven. That kind of selfishness is going against basic teaching. People who are Buddhist from birth, well it's possible that they stay with it without questioning it once, which for me is the wrong reason and shows stupidity. Thats the ultimate wrong reason for being religious, blind faith. Questioning is part of our human nature and so we should assure ourselves we are happy with what we believe and make decisions before preaching it to others.


I totally agree with you. Most people stick with the religion they were raised in, because it's easy. Well, life's not easy, face it. What you get then, is people who claim to be something, while not knowing anything about it, etc., etc. Only when you realise what you stand for, and what you preach, you can be truly religious for the right reasons.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 20th Aug 2008

I follow the teachings of both Buddha and Jesus... I don't know whether that's a Christo-buddhist, or a Buddho-Christian, but that's what I do.

I personally feel that I'm religious because it means there's someone (or something) out there bigger than everything, and that there's someone watching out for people who need it. I pray to relax, and I have a story that pretty much makes my belief in a god definite.

Last year, at the last day of school, we all took a sharpie and put our initials in our lockers. I thought it was pretty amazing at the time, but then I realized that I was probably going to get in trouble for that. At the end of summer, I prayed that I wouldn't get in trouble for signing my locker, and on the first day of school, my homeroom teacher took us to the row of lockers that mine was in last year, and said we could pick any of that row as our own. Of course, I bolted to the one I had last year, and as a result, they won't have to learn that it was signed. As if to confirm it, a teacher walked by just as I was looking in my locker, made a comment about a decoration directly next to the initials, and walked away. Now, I'm not saying that this is big enough that it was god, but I feel like every time I pray for something, I get it.

But here's why I like buddhism. Buddhism puts no pressure on you to worship, to repent, or even to avoid sinning, it just wants you to be happy and peaceful. My mother bought a singing bowl the other day, and we set up my zen garden with a laughing Buddha and some incense and just had the bowl sing for twenty minutes, and it really made me happy. Like, genuinely happy for no reason. Any way of life that can create instant happiness out of a pleasant sound and a pleasant smell has to be doing something right.

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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by saynototrouble » Wed 20th Aug 2008

BlackOpal wrote:But that reminded me of something I heard on the radio about Western Buddhism. How people, in Western Society, will be Buddhist for the wrong reasons. They meditate, but they don't give up worldly values. They live in the suburbs, they buy iPods, they steal pens from work, they aren't true Buddhists. They don't renounce title and position.
You can't really reach enlightenment like that.
People can most definitely become Buddhist for the wrong reasons.
Buddhism is about balance. You don't strip yourself of everything pleasurable, but you don't over indulge. People in todays culture tend to find balance in the ways that it's easy for them, and still indulge in what they truly like. One person may give up alcohol, but still eat richly. That's not balance in every aspect of your life.
Many people do become Buddhist without really understanding the teachings. They just like the image of peace and love that they get without. It's almost like being Buddhist is "cool" and people convert just for that.


I wholeheartedly agree. There are indeed said people who just proclaim themselves Buddhists and let that be that. They may meditate, they may even do something like join a free tibet campaign. But they continue to indulge, continue to work for their own gain first and foremost. As you have said, enlightenment cannot be reached by words alone, you have to mean it. You have to look at the world, look at yourself from everyone's perspective and not just your own. Buddhism 101: Buddha's teachings=goodness and moderation in all things, including moderation. Nobody can be perfect, the same can be said for all religions, we're all human at the end of the day. But a balance between over-indulgence and moral based self-mortification is 100% necessary.
People who become Buddhists to be cool, now truer words have never been said (or typed, as is the case). They do like the ideas of peace and love and karma as you have already pointed out, but true conversion comes with knowledge and having made the decisions yourself, in the ways that I've already mentioned. Buddhists for the wrong reason, yes. But most of the time they aren't buddhist at all, so we'll just let them think they are, as usual until they find the truth for themselves.

P5YCHIC wrote:I follow the teachings of both Buddha and Jesus... I don't know whether that's a Christo-buddhist, or a Buddho-Christian, but that's what I do.

I personally feel that I'm religious because it means there's someone (or something) out there bigger than everything, and that there's someone watching out for people who need it. I pray to relax, and I have a story that pretty much makes my belief in a god definite.

Last year, at the last day of school, we all took a sharpie and put our initials in our lockers. I thought it was pretty amazing at the time, but then I realized that I was probably going to get in trouble for that. At the end of summer, I prayed that I wouldn't get in trouble for signing my locker, and on the first day of school, my homeroom teacher took us to the row of lockers that mine was in last year, and said we could pick any of that row as our own. Of course, I bolted to the one I had last year, and as a result, they won't have to learn that it was signed. As if to confirm it, a teacher walked by just as I was looking in my locker, made a comment about a decoration directly next to the initials, and walked away. Now, I'm not saying that this is big enough that it was god, but I feel like every time I pray for something, I get it.

But here's why I like buddhism. Buddhism puts no pressure on you to worship, to repent, or even to avoid sinning, it just wants you to be happy and peaceful. My mother bought a singing bowl the other day, and we set up my zen garden with a laughing Buddha and some incense and just had the bowl sing for twenty minutes, and it really made me happy. Like, genuinely happy for no reason. Any way of life that can create instant happiness out of a pleasant sound and a pleasant smell has to be doing something right.


You make some interesting points, and that's quite a story. First off, I don't know if you know but there are some pretty large scale interactions between buddhism and christianity. Most Buddhists see Jesus as one of many Bodhasittva's. That means he was an 'enlightened being', and a lot of his teachings are coherent with buddhism.
The weirdest thing by far though is looking at Jesus and Buddhism from history, and you can't help but notice HUGE similarities between Buddha's teachings and Jesus'. Teachings about the meek inheriting the earth, turning the other cheek and loving your enemies? Absolutely no place in Judaism, but completely inline with buddhism. Take into account that buddhism is 500 years older than Jesus, and stories of Jesus even traveling to Kashmir twice in his life and actually dying there... Hey, I'll let you look it up.
What you're saying about happiness in Buddhism, you're kiiiiiiiiiind of on the mark, but it's a li'l different. We believe peace and happiness comes from following teachings and meditation and following karma and many things I won't go into, but as a result of your impact on others.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by Feandril » Wed 20th Aug 2008

[Statement]: My friend, nothing in life is free... everything needs to be payed for or will have it's consequences.

But, Buddhism and Christianity are sooooo different. They are, in base, COMPLETELY different. That locker thing is something that happens to every one of us. It's pretty much a regular thing. I mean, he could have had his attention drawn to that drawing, plus, you can't see scratched metal as such from every angle well...

Here is something that's a bit less coincidental.

A guy prays to God(Christian) for enlightenment and guidance. Day or two after that, his atheist friend who doesn't believe in God whatsoever decides to give him a copy of New Testament just for the hell of it... that ain't a coincidence if you ask me.

The same guy looses his cross after training. He feels sorry about it and prays to God he finds it. In the place he trains they claim they never saw it and everything... 5 days later, a guy who shouldn't find it said he accidentally stumbled upon it in the changing room. And he didn't steal it or anything.

Yes, yes... it COULD be a coincidence, I know. But I don't think it is, really. I've seen these occurrences myself and am involved in them. I am pretty sure it's something more than just chances...
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by p5ychic » Wed 20th Aug 2008

I mean it was purple sharpie. Either way, Buddhism isn't technically a religion, it's a way of life. Religion implies theism, and Buddhism doesn't require you to believe in any specific god. That's why I like Buddhism, because it can work in conjunction with any other religion, or stand on its own without another religion.

Buddhism and Christianity aren't that different, both preach peace and love, but Buddhism doesn't have all the millions of rules Christianity has. Buddhism doesn't tell you that any particular lifestyle or action is wrong or sinful, but instead encourages you to be happy through peace and separation from your desire for material possessions.

Basically, what I'm saying is, the people who only follow their religious doctrine because they think they'll get a reward if they do are only doing it for their own personal gain, and that's not what religion is supposed to be.

Personally, I think all religions are the right path. It doesn't matter what God you believe in, as long as you live a good life. And I think that all versions of God are true, because God is how you view him or her, and is so big (cosmically speaking, not actually physically large) that his true form can't fit into the human imagination, so we find different ways of interpreting him or her. This would also explain why so many religions branch off of the same god or gods. I mean, think about it. The Greeks and Romans had the same religion, only in different languages, and according to a Greco-Roman myth, the Egyptian Gods were the Greek and Roman gods when they went into hiding in Egypt to escape a monster. So that's three religions that exist within the same canon. Then there's Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Haitian Voodoo, which all worship the God of Abraham under different names. (Haitian Voodoo is an Amalgamation of Christianity and Traditional African Voodoo, invented by enslaved Africans in Haiti so that they could continue practicing their traditional religion while telling their slave masters that it was Christianity).

Then there's the argument that God is a creation of Man. Think about this: God is almost always depicted as being associated with the sky, the clouds, and the sun. If the concept of god is a creation of man, it's probably because primitive man realized that when the sun was there, it was warm and he could see, but when it was gone, it was dark and cold. That's probably why so many ancient religions have the Sun God being the Chief God in almost all instances. Ancient man also saw the clouds and noticed that not only could they not see what was on top of them, and clouds are opaque, so they inferred that they were solid, and knew that the sun (which was, at this point associated with God) came from behind the clouds, and decided that God must be living on top of them. They realized that the only things that could possibly get up to the clouds were things with wings, so they inferred that Angels must have wings for transport between the heavens and the earth. The bible describes rain as God opening the window of heaven and letting the rain fall on earth, and thunder is usually associated with god (or the gods) being angry for some reason (why zeus is depicted as throwing lightning bolts). But religion has to adapt for an ever-changing world. We've been above and through the clouds now, and we can see that heaven is not where we thought it was. We now know about the water cycle and the static electricity that causes thunderstorms, so that's no longer associated with God. We know now what the Sun is. Some religions now depict heaven and hell as another universe that can't be accessed while still alive.

I believe that the whole of creation is God, and that anything inside of it is part of that entity. I believe that the afterlife exists somewhere outside creation, and that the only way to get there is for your consciousness to no longer be a part of creation. I believe that while God does exist, he's not what we think he is, and that we've painted a mental image of him based on the parts of him that directly affect us (The sun, the sky, and the earth)

Just a few things to think about.

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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 20th Aug 2008

P5YCHIC wrote:
Personally, I think all religions are the right path. It doesn't matter what God you believe in, as long as you live a good life. And I think that all versions of God are true, because God is how you view him or her, and is so big (cosmically speaking, not actually physically large) that his true form can't fit into the human imagination, so we find different ways of interpreting him or her. This would also explain why so many religions branch off of the same god or gods. I mean, think about it. The Greeks and Romans had the same religion, only in different languages, and according to a Greco-Roman myth, the Egyptian Gods were the Greek and Roman gods when they went into hiding in Egypt to escape a monster. So that's three religions that exist within the same canon. Then there's Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Haitian Voodoo, which all worship the God of Abraham under different names. (Haitian Voodoo is an Amalgamation of Christianity and Traditional African Voodoo, invented by enslaved Africans in Haiti so that they could continue practicing their traditional religion while telling their slave masters that it was Christianity).



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That reminds me of Druidism. All Gods are one God and all Goddesses are one Goddess.
Of course, Christianity doesn't agree, but in that case the Goddess is the Virgin Mary.
I know that a lot of Christians disagree with that idea, and I'm sure a lot of other religions disagree, but that's what I think.
And when you get to the base of it, Christianity and Buddhism preach the same things.
Whether or not Buddhism (or Taoism, etc.) is a religion is debatable. It has somewhat of a theism. You really have to follow the rules.
But it does leave everything else open.


And you aren't allowed to write things in your lockers? We always write stuff in our lockers.
Not relevant, I know.
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Re: Religious for the wrong reasons?

Post by /b/ » Wed 20th Aug 2008

My dear friend, that happens just like anything else does. I have myself witnessed chance breaking in a unbelievable circumstance.

Ok, so I'm going to school for a pre-class whatever it's called. A class with our headmaster before regular school where we discuss our class and all. So, I'm already on the tramway, and suddenly I remember, I forgot my "what's the name of the book where you get your grades written in?" and jump of the tramway in the next station and run to home to get it. I get it and again, suddenly I get a call from a friend who calls to ask something completely irrelevant but tells me that the class was canceled. So, since I'm already half way to school, and I REALLY don't want to go home again, I remember that a biscuit stand is there in front of our school for two days now, and it's the last day it's there, and if you have a box of those biscuits you can play a pacman like game, and have a 1-500 chance of getting a MP3. I don't have a MP3, and I really wanted one, but that option was out of question, but I got to play pacman :D So, I go there, buy a box of biscuits, which I can't even eat since I was feasting and it had eggs in it, but I bought it just for the heck of it. Yes, you guessed it, I won the MP3. There were so many things that could have happened to stop me from getting there then. I could have gotten there earlier, and then, someone after me would get it. I could come later, and someone before me would get it. But I got there and then, and I got it.

How's that for chance breaking? And I didn't pray! Who'd guess?

The thing is that, it ain't important if you pray to Lord almighty, Allah, Buddha (you don't do that at all but anyway), or the Giant Spaghetti Monster, the point remains. You believe something will happen. And so it will. It's all in the faith. Call it faith, magic or miracle, it happened, and yes, it should have attention turned to it. The reason no miracles happen anymore is because people believe in other things, and when miracles happen, they call it a chance.

I'd really love to study Buddhism more when I get a chance, but I have for example been on a gathering of a guy called Swami Wishvananda or something, and we all sang Hare Krishna, and even though I never sang that, or any other songs that I heard and sang there and that day, I felt good. Everyone did. It was full of good emotions, love and care. That guy wants to merge Christianity, Muslim, Taoism and all other faiths into one, and make no difference there. I support a religion that has a meeting filled with love. When I go to church, at least Catholic and Orthodox are the ones I was in, I constantly have a fear of something bigger then me, a mean entity that will harm me if I'm not good, and there is a atmosphere of death all around, it's like someone died. I support any religion that supports one's happiness, not fear.

And as a reply to the last post, the God as we know it is something a human mind can describe. For example, first religions believed in many Gods, it was difficult to understand one big perfect entity, so there were several, quite human-like Gods. Later, there was one, not so human like God, but it was more perfect then any of the previous ones on their own. It's like human mind is trying to understand something perfect. And that's what I take the truth is. Also, I don't think it's good or bad. I think it's right. It doesn't do good for us when it allows or maybe even creates a war, but that's right from it's Godly perspective, the right one. Also, I don't think there is the Prince of darkness, the Satan. I think that's also God, but people can't understand that someone can just be right, but instead they make someone else to be blamed.

As P5 said, I consider myself a believer, because I believe in a bigger entity. I consider myself a Christian, since that religion is the closest to my beliefs. But I'm into magic, and many other stuff that Christianity denies just like that. That's why I'm not a full scale Christian, or any other faith, when it comes to that. That way I know, I can't be religions for wrong reasons. I'm not religious. I'm faithful.
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I love you guys :]

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