Religion in General

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Religion in General

Post by Minerva Scriptor » Tue 19th Jun 2007

Well. there are a lot of topics regarding religion already, but what about the whole thing in general?

Why did humans ever start religion in the first place? It was an evolutionary setback.

Is there one religion that has more truth than all the rest, or are they all utter nonsense?

Why do so many people feel the need to be part of a religion?

Although I am not at all religios, I have a strange facination in all religions, and how they all fit togethor.
I think that religion is something completely made up by man. When humans started to question things, they were unable to scientifically find answers as we are today. Instead they came up with varous gods and godesses to explain it all. I think that all religions are intertwined. I just read about how Nin-ti, a Sumerian godess, from one of the earliest religions, became the Christian Eve.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by BlackOpal » Tue 19th Jun 2007

My friend and I were talking about how worked up people get about religion. When it comes to different religions they all have the same basic rules, don't steal, don't lie, don't murder, they just have different people to represent why not to do those things. I think that people get a little too caught up in the technicalities and start hating people who's stories differ from theirs.
I find it interesting that certain archetypes appear in all different religions from all over the globe. The Ouroboros appears in ten or more different religions, even Christianity.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by TheFoalyGenius » Tue 3rd Jul 2007

Religion isn't completely pointless. It is one of the backbones of society believe me. Some choose to take it more seriously than others which means those people have more faith in that particular religion. Doesn't make it wrong, but sometimes they try and enforce that faith into other people. It was created to answer strange questions of the universe, but it was also created to give people faith, courage and most importantly a God no matter how different it was from other gods.It's not essentially a set back. Having faith is not a set back to having scientific reasoning. It is more harder to achieve.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by Gravitational Singularity » Tue 3rd Jul 2007

We humans have the strange habit of asking why, when what really should matter is how. Instead of simply understanding how to survive we chose to ask why we should survive. We started to question our existance and it's purpose. I believe that this was the reason for the creation of the first religions, and the reason for the currently existing religions.

I also think that science is a religion. There are different laws of physics that scientists belive to be true, so in that way it works out as a sort of religion. To me science is the religion that is more correct than any other because it's so flexible. If a theory is proven wrong, science just adjusts itself to be more and more correct.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by Meova » Sat 13th Sep 2008

I wanted to start a topic about this, but it turned out there was already one, so here.
So, what d'you think about religion in general? I personally think there's nothing wrong with having a religion. As long as you leave other people be. So I think that you shouldn't kill or not be friends with someone just because they have another religion. And you shouldn't get offended by it. I mean, I could be offended by people because they're Christian and think I belong in Hell, but I'm not. Some Christians are however offended by my existance. So, what d'you guys think?
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Re: Religion in General

Post by nutrino » Wed 17th Sep 2008

I think it was made up by the people in charges tens of thousands of years ago. They were supposed to know everything, and when they were asked aquestion they couldn't answer, they made something up. The people believed them, and over time these answers built up into a way of life or a religion. All religions have ideals that no-one ever follows, and up until 450 years ago leaders could still make up religions-Henry VIII for example (some of you may remember my "LOST" addiction. I managed to kick it with a "The Tudors" addiction so I'll be mentioning it as much as possible from now on.). Now it is followed by people, who waste their lives because they don't know what will happen when they die. If I were still a christian, I would re-read "His Dark Materials" and have a serious look at myself... no offence to religious people meant (I can be quite offensive, can't I?).
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Re: Religion in General

Post by BlackOpal » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Henry VIII did invent a new religion. Blaugh.
But it did do some good, after all, the Vatican was quite corrupted at the time.
And just because one religion doesn't make sense, doesn't mean that they are all wrong.
That's like saying that because of the Piltdown man, evolution has no merit whatsoever.
And how do they waste their lives? I'm not quite sure I understand that statement.
Also, if I remember correctly, Christians believe they know what happens when they die. So they won't waste their time because they don't know what is going to happen when they die.

Sorry, your point is not very clear to me. Your post kind of rambled a bit. (Ahaha, that sentence was rambling. XD)
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Re: Religion in General

Post by Domovi » Wed 17th Sep 2008

I believe in the God of Abraham and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but I also believe in science, to me, science is a way of enhancing religion, when you think about it, we are all the byproduct of E=MC^2, stars go boom, material from E=MC^2 goes everywhere, that stuff forms planets, another star goes boom and provides the basis for life, at another part of the solar system, anothe star goes boom and catapults a planet at proto-earth, the two planets collide and form Earth II, the moon, and the basis for basic life and evolution, but to really see this as a way of enhancement, you need to go back further, Pre-Big-Bang, a singular atom floats through nonexistance, slowly gathering billions upon billions of neutrons, becoming more and more unstable with each one that is added, until.....Boom! it finally happened! the atom burst and millions upon billions upon trillions of micro particles go flying every where, released by the unstable atom, colliding, collecting, deflecting, absorbing! but they are all but minor characters in the play that we now call the dawn of existence, the main character is Energy! Energy released by E=MC^2! Wonderful Energy! Zipping, Zapping, Zinging, Zanging, creating a beautiful display of lights, but that's not their main role, only a side effect, the energy transforms into electric, light, heat, and kinetic energies, sending the neutrons flying! but what's this? it seems as though two new characters nave entered? wait, they are only energy under different names! protons and electrons are sent colliding into the neutrons, neuclei are taling shape, tiny electrons zipping around them at extreme speeds, atoms colliding to form compounds, compounds gatheing in clusters, hydrogen atoms already reinacting the tale of their origin, forming stars, forming clusters, forming the first galaxies! forming galaxy clusters! and thus the uinverse was born.....

this may sound just like something that a person trying to disprove god would say, but if you think about it, this only gives more credibility to god, how was this supre dense first atom formed? where did the neutrons come from? what CREATED E=MC^2 if E=MC^2 created the universe? the way i see it, E=MC^2 is just another way of saying god, if this makes no sense, think, what exactly are the chances of all that happened to create Earth II actually happening again? The creation of men ever happening again? next to none and perhaps just none! the way i see it, science is God's test to us, there are those who will deny science and follow god, those who will forsake god and accept science (eventually causing Armagheddon), and there are those who see science as God's gift to humans (along with existence) and also as his greatest test.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Sep 2008

1- The big bang happened because of a singularity, not an atom. It didn't gather neutrons. A singularity is a large amount of matter with no volume, giving it infinite density.
2- There is no Earth II, there's only one earth. It's the same earth that was hit by that planetoid, so there's no need for the II.
3- E=MC^2 is not even close to what created us. It's the matter-energy equivalence formula. We're not all the product of E=MC^2, not even close. E=MC^2 isn't even a physical thing. You seem to have confused it with the big bang.
4- Protons and Electrons are not "energy under a different name," they're matter. They're physical particles. They have a charge, but they aren't energy.
5- Neutrons are not the primary component of matter. In fact, matter is primarily composed of empty space. It wouldn't make sense for your idea of Neutrons being blasted everywhere by the big bang, because that object would have to be millions of light-years across. Also, it's not an atom if it doesn't have at least one proton.

You have the right idea, but your science is... flawed to say the least.

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Re: Religion in General

Post by Domovi » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Um, P5? mabey you had something to say, but you seemed to have forgotten it and simply put a superlong quote....

please note that if p5's post turns into something more than just an overly long quote, then he has altered it.

edited september the sixteenth, the year of two-thousand-eght A.D

in the bill of rights, people are entitled to freedom of religeon, and i do not wish people to mock me for my beliefs.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by p5ychic » Wed 17th Sep 2008

Domovi wrote:Um, P5? mabey you had something to say, but you seemed to have forgotten it and simply put a superlong quote....

please note that if p5's post turns into something more than just an overly long quote, then he has altered it.

edited september the sixteenth, the year of two-thousand-eght A.D

in the bill of rights, people are entitled to freedom of religeon, and i do not wish people to mock me for my beliefs.


Sorry, my internet crapped out and I lost all of my text. It just posted the quote and I had to re-type the whole thing.

Anyway, I'm not mocking you for you beliefs, I'm just saying the science you've described isn't how science happens. You have the same idea as me, but the science you have in the article seems to have rewritten a few laws of nature.

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Re: Religion in General

Post by Domovi » Thu 18th Sep 2008

listen, watch NOVA: E=MC^2, it'll help you understand this, listen, particle accelerators work on the principal that the big bang was, infact, caused by unstable atoms, the unstable atoms cause a huge release of energy, much of wich is heat, when the area cools off enough, new elements are formed, if this was not how the big bang happened, then particle accelerators would not work, and man would have to seek out a new way to make synthetic elements, they would then create a cingularity, and that would blow us all (and a good chunk of the universe) to heck and NOT back. the next attack on my beliefs is that there is no Earth Mark II, The Orpheus Collision Theory says that the planetoid Orpheus collided into proto-earth, you are working on the idea that it was a head on collisoin, if this was so, then there would be great vomit-like chunks of proto-earth's and orpeus's molten iron cores all across the solar system, stopping volcanoes from forming (and thus eliminating the posibility of dry land), and the earth as we know it would be shaped like an hourglass without a moon, the Orpheus Collision Theory suggests that it was at first a glancing blow, and their gravities forced them toghether with another few series of blows, sending a spiral of crust, water, and molten iron (mostly this) spiralling in close orbit, the next part could (if there were no such thing as god) be explained as a massive amount of luck, a significant amount of molten iron solidified in what i will call the butter zone, not so close that it would be brought into the centeral glob that was to be the earth, but not so far that it was able to escape the gravity of the glob, there the iron solidified into multiple mini-moons, these (over a period of time) either collided together to join the main moon, or were deflected out of it's path, the rest of the matter was drawn together by gravity, the water did not seem to appear until much later because Earth mark II had not cooled down sufficiently because of active volcanoes making the heat go down much slower. what i meant by e=mc^2 created us was that it caused the big bang (which i believe it did) and that without it, the stars would be just big balls of gas (if by some off chance you might be right about the process represented by the equation not creating the universe), not big balls of exploding gas, and would not be able to go supernova, the supernova is an over-glorified nuke that is able to create denser elements than nukes can because it has more of the basic building blocks of atoms than a tiny bit of plutonium or uranium, the explosion send these building blocks flying to every parts of the galactic neighborhood. protons, neutrons, and electrons do not have mass, it is the grey space around these building blocks that allow something to have mass, a very recent discovery. i never said it didn't have protons and electrons, i just said it had an overabundance of neutrons, and i never said that it was empty space, it is grey space, the thing that gives an atom it's density, yes, i do read and watch alot of stuff about science.

*edit*
which laws of nature? i need to look into those.....
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Re: Religion in General

Post by p5ychic » Thu 18th Sep 2008

Domovi wrote:listen, watch NOVA: E=MC^2, it'll help you understand this, listen, particle accelerators work on the principal that the big bang was, infact, caused by unstable atoms, the unstable atoms cause a huge release of energy, much of wich is heat, when the area cools off enough, new elements are formed, if this was not how the big bang happened, then particle accelerators would not work, and man would have to seek out a new way to make synthetic elements, they would then create a cingularity, and that would blow us all (and a good chunk of the universe) to heck and NOT back. the next attack on my beliefs is that there is no Earth Mark II, The Orpheus Collision Theory says that the planetoid Orpheus collided into proto-earth, you are working on the idea that it was a head on collisoin, if this was so, then there would be great vomit-like chunks of proto-earth's and orpeus's molten iron cores all across the solar system, stopping volcanoes from forming (and thus eliminating the posibility of dry land), and the earth as we know it would be shaped like an hourglass without a moon, the Orpheus Collision Theory suggests that it was at first a glancing blow, and their gravities forced them toghether with another few series of blows, sending a spiral of crust, water, and molten iron (mostly this) spiralling in close orbit, the next part could (if there were no such thing as god) be explained as a massive amount of luck, a significant amount of molten iron solidified in what i will call the butter zone, not so close that it would be brought into the centeral glob that was to be the earth, but not so far that it was able to escape the gravity of the glob, there the iron solidified into multiple mini-moons, these (over a period of time) either collided together to join the main moon, or were deflected out of it's path, the rest of the matter was drawn together by gravity, the water did not seem to appear until much later because Earth mark II had not cooled down sufficiently because of active volcanoes making the heat go down much slower. what i meant by e=mc^2 created us was that it caused the big bang (which i believe it did) and that without it, the stars would be just big balls of gas (if by some off chance you might be right about the process represented by the equation not creating the universe), not big balls of exploding gas, and would not be able to go supernova, the supernova is an over-glorified nuke that is able to create denser elements than nukes can because it has more of the basic building blocks of atoms than a tiny bit of plutonium or uranium, the explosion send these building blocks flying to every parts of the galactic neighborhood. protons, neutrons, and electrons do not have mass, it is the grey space around these building blocks that allow something to have mass, a very recent discovery. i never said it didn't have protons and electrons, i just said it had an overabundance of neutrons, and i never said that it was empty space, it is grey space, the thing that gives an atom it's density, yes, i do read and watch alot of stuff about science.

*edit*
which laws of nature? i need to look into those.....


I think there may have been a miscommunication. It seems that we have pretty much the same belief on this (when I said that it wasn't earth II I meant that there's really no need for the II, it's still the same earth, like if someone named frank gets a liver transplant, there's no need to start calling him Frank Jr., you can still just call him Frank.) I'm not trying to attack your beliefs. I think what happens is that you say something one way, I said the same thing a different way, and we're both looking at each other like the other is crazy. Like if I were shouting "The colors for christmas are red and green!" and you respond "The colors for christmas are green and red!" We seem to be arguing the same point, but we're somehow on different sides of it?

(At this point, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm adding on to what you said. I'm willing to concede we were fighting each other on the same side of the argument.)

You didn't say matter was mostly empty space, I did. The space between the nucleus of the atom and the electron shells is greater than the matter that composes the atoms, which means matter is mostly empty space.

Orpheus did collide with Earth, it did eject many chunks of lava into space which eventually formed today's moon, I totally agree with you on that, but it's also part of that theory that Orpheus was eventually melted into the Earth's mass, with the exception of a few stray chunks flying out into space to become meteors or the moon.

A supernova is actually much more powerful than what we'd think of as a nuke, because a nuke creates nuclear fission, whereas a supernova is caused when a star either suddenly starts or stops nuclear fusion. Nuclear Fusion is what's happening in the sun, which means (using a lightbulb as a metaphor for a star) the star either burns out or blows out.

I agree with you that god probably uses science as the rules for the universe, because when programmers create systems, they lay out specifications for what can and cannot happen in that system, and I believe that's what the laws of nature are for.

Domovi's got the right idea, but I think I misunderstood the wording of the science before.

(If you want to hear a really dumb scientific guess to the formation of the universe, here's one that can't be topped:

A kid in my science class wrote:Mars used to be like, fifty times bigger than it is now, and all the dinosaurs used to live there. Then, a huge meteor hit it, and blew it up into a million meteors, leaving mars like it is today. A lot of those meteors hit earth, which is why we have dinosaur skeletons on earth. The rest of the meteors went and made the asteroid belt. So, that covers the big bang, why dinosaurs are dead, how the skeletons got underground, and where the asteroid belt came from.

Me, in response to him wrote:...

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Re: Religion in General

Post by Meova » Thu 18th Sep 2008

nutrino wrote:All religions have ideals that no-one ever follows,


Honey, I disagree strongly with that. Wicca has ideals that all Wiccans follow, otherwise they're not true Wiccans. Harm no one, take care of the environment, do only good things... We all follow that, so that isn't a real argument.
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Re: Religion in General

Post by Domovi » Thu 18th Sep 2008

okay, so my science was a bit screwed up, but seriously, i'm only thirteen, i just barely started physical science, and most of my info is from scientific american and documentaries (i watch alot of them), and a bit of it i had to fill in the blanks (only a small bit), and another bit was putting 2 and 2 together, but the basic idea is that god made science to test us and to help us (and if we never found out, we would fail, and blow ourselves up and cause armagheddon). just a question? where does all the helium go? or does it remain in the star untill supernova?
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