Is God Real?

Debates of a more controversial nature, and discussions on the latest world events. Give your opinions, but no flaming!
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shaadia cader
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by shaadia cader » Sat 21st Dec 2013

That's...interesting :D
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Arbiterheresy » Mon 23rd Dec 2013

Like everyone says the theory of the Big Bang, now, i'm not saying ALL atheists believe in this, but i'm saying a large amount do. Now, people believe that for some unknown and completely impossible way, one little speck of dust, not even large enough, it exploded and the universe was born into existence, but this was before time, space, life, everything. So who, or what could have caused this? now i see most people in here have ad little argument on gods side, but this is my proof. There would have to be a huge amount of energy to create the Big Bang, most likely the gift of creation, which was used to make everything, and the thing about the sun sol, God created the concept of a day without the sun.
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lackingimagination
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by lackingimagination » Wed 25th Dec 2013

I honestly don't understand people who don't believe there is at least something higher than themselves, something unexplainable. Do those people not hear music, not see beauty, not understand that there is absolutely no reason for existence to be possible if not for something else also existing? Then again, maybe some people are just not prone to spiritual experiences. I find a spiritual experience in everything. I think there is some kind of a power out there that we cannot explain. I know I have felt it myself.

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The redeem3r
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by The redeem3r » Thu 26th Dec 2013

lackingimagination wrote:I honestly don't understand people who don't believe there is at least something higher than themselves, something unexplainable. Do those people not hear music, not see beauty, not understand that there is absolutely no reason for existence to be possible if not for something else also existing? Then again, maybe some people are just not prone to spiritual experiences. I find a spiritual experience in everything. I think there is some kind of a power out there that we cannot explain. I know I have felt it myself.
The issue with that mindset is that beauty and understanding are not inherent traits. You may love a song with all your heart and I might hate it. You may hold convictions stronger than anyone else on a subject and I could not share them.

The problem with the argument of beauty and order in the world is that it is a subjectively perceived persona of the universe. It's a difficult notion, so much so that I have no doubts that not a single person in the world could say with 100 percent confidence a refutation, to accept that there is no purpose to the universe; however, it may be the case.

To whom could we empirically credit the creation of the universe? Do we credit Yahweh? Do we credit Zeus? Do we credit Shiva? Or maybe the thousands of other gods that have come and gone?

The idea that life MUST have a purpose is entirely subjective - it does not have to have a purpose. Everything can be comparatively broken down. Say a god exists - why did God create the universe? Once you come up with an answer to that, ask once more 'why?' If functioning under the parameters of logic, you'll eventually have an answer that is along the lines of "I don't know."
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The reasons aliens haven't made contact with us because if a species were to become space-faring, they would have no doubt realized that bickering and warring is primitive. They realize that any interaction with humans would be met with hostility on our parts. Only when we can put aside our differences and tear down our borders will be find what we are looking for.

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by lackingimagination » Thu 26th Dec 2013

The redeem3r wrote:
lackingimagination wrote:I honestly don't understand people who don't believe there is at least something higher than themselves, something unexplainable. Do those people not hear music, not see beauty, not understand that there is absolutely no reason for existence to be possible if not for something else also existing? Then again, maybe some people are just not prone to spiritual experiences. I find a spiritual experience in everything. I think there is some kind of a power out there that we cannot explain. I know I have felt it myself.
The issue with that mindset is that beauty and understanding are not inherent traits. You may love a song with all your heart and I might hate it. You may hold convictions stronger than anyone else on a subject and I could not share them.

The problem with the argument of beauty and order in the world is that it is a subjectively perceived persona of the universe. It's a difficult notion, so much so that I have no doubts that not a single person in the world could say with 100 percent confidence a refutation, to accept that there is no purpose to the universe; however, it may be the case.

To whom could we empirically credit the creation of the universe? Do we credit Yahweh? Do we credit Zeus? Do we credit Shiva? Or maybe the thousands of other gods that have come and gone?

The idea that life MUST have a purpose is entirely subjective - it does not have to have a purpose. Everything can be comparatively broken down. Say a god exists - why did God create the universe? Once you come up with an answer to that, ask once more 'why?' If functioning under the parameters of logic, you'll eventually have an answer that is along the lines of "I don't know."
The way I see it, there couldn't be anything if there wasn't something before. I choose to believe that that something meant for us to have meaningful lives, which is why we percieve beauty and ugliness. I don't necessarily believe we have a "purpose", so to speak, and unlike others I'm perfectly content to say, "I don't know" - in fact, I'm far more comfortable with admitting that I'll never know what the big picture really means than with assigning meaning to it.

I understand that gods come and go, and that billions of past gods that were worshipped by millions are now obsolete. If anything, that just makes me feel like spirituality is an inherent human trait. We create gods to explain why everything is here, because science can't. Certainly science indicates a big bang, but can't yet explain why the big bang occured.

If someday it's completely confirmed, with no doubt, and tangible proof that can be seen before my very eyes, that gods are not real, there is no purpose, and science and logic can explain everything that ever was, I will settle down and accept it but I'll still feel like I'm missing something. Spirituality and meaning is just something that I've always felt even without outside manipulation.

Pretty long-winded and pointless post, so I apologize for that. It's just some of my thoughts on the subject.

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by The redeem3r » Fri 27th Dec 2013

lackingimagination wrote:
The way I see it, there couldn't be anything if there wasn't something before. I choose to believe that that something meant for us to have meaningful lives, which is why we percieve beauty and ugliness. I don't necessarily believe we have a "purpose", so to speak, and unlike others I'm perfectly content to say, "I don't know" - in fact, I'm far more comfortable with admitting that I'll never know what the big picture really means than with assigning meaning to it.

I understand that gods come and go, and that billions of past gods that were worshipped by millions are now obsolete. If anything, that just makes me feel like spirituality is an inherent human trait. We create gods to explain why everything is here, because science can't. Certainly science indicates a big bang, but can't yet explain why the big bang occured.

If someday it's completely confirmed, with no doubt, and tangible proof that can be seen before my very eyes, that gods are not real, there is no purpose, and science and logic can explain everything that ever was, I will settle down and accept it but I'll still feel like I'm missing something. Spirituality and meaning is just something that I've always felt even without outside manipulation.

Pretty long-winded and pointless post, so I apologize for that. It's just some of my thoughts on the subject.
A respectable stance on the issue no doubt, but a logical fallacy. I feel as though the conceptual basis for that mindset has many sorts of titles that could be stamped to it, but none more so than what was coined by E.T Jaynes - it is a 'mind projection fallacy'

Though you may feel a perceived connection with the world, it is not shared in the exact same manner by any other human being on this planet.

Also, you suggest a shift in the burden of proof fallacy. You cannot logically ask for intangible proof of science and not ask the same of religion. Science is merely one way we attempt to understand the world and the universe surrounding us (religion being an alternative for many), but the burden of proof does not lie with science, it lies with religion.

Take for example the theory of gravity(not very disputed, but a notable example nonetheless). Science says that objects with mass attract other objects to the center of said mass. What is the religious explanation for this? Religion, simply put, does not have one; so which would you side with if you were an unbiased onlooker? Would you agree with the abstract idea of Science, or the abstract idea of religion? Which of the two is left to provide an argument and bear the burden of proof?


"Pretty long-winded and pointless post, so I apologize for that. It's just some of my thoughts on the subject."

You shouldn't say that. While it might go against what I just said, I feel that if you hold an opinion ardently, you should try to defend it. If you believe in it, it's not "long-winded" or "pointless"
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The reasons aliens haven't made contact with us because if a species were to become space-faring, they would have no doubt realized that bickering and warring is primitive. They realize that any interaction with humans would be met with hostility on our parts. Only when we can put aside our differences and tear down our borders will be find what we are looking for.

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lackingimagination
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by lackingimagination » Thu 16th Jan 2014

I can't find infallible proof for anything, science or religion alike. Existence itself seems to be meaningless to me, but as far as I can I'm trying to live my own life with at least a semblance of meaning even if it doesn't exist.
I believe there's something, but I can't prove it.

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by JLHxXxX » Thu 23rd Jan 2014

lackingimagination wrote:I can't find infallible proof for anything, science or religion alike. Existence itself seems to be meaningless to me, but as far as I can I'm trying to live my own life with at least a semblance of meaning even if it doesn't exist.
I believe there's something, but I can't prove it.
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Spudtron98 » Wed 12th Mar 2014

This is not the sort of thing you should ask on the internet.
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