Is God Real?

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TungstenMessah
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by TungstenMessah » Sun 6th Nov 2011

Two-legged stool eh?

XD. Seriously. Abiotic matter simply isn't complicated enough to from living material. Let's not even USE bacteria. That's a leetle bit too complicated.

Let's us an amoebae. You can't take a bit of iron, a bit of hydrogen, a bit of sulfur, a bit of nitrogen, and wish for a miracle. You just can't.

You can't have lizards running over the place if you can't even have single-celled organisms in the ocean.

No matter how hard you try, it don't work. The human DNA itself is complicated enough. A mistake here or there causes a Down Syndrome-afflicted child. Another splice, or mistake, and we have a cancer-prone girl. We get the blindness gene, and a baby boy is born blind.

There are a LOT more disabled people than genii on Earth. HOWEVER. I'm not saying natural selection does NOT happen, it does.

But, you need the amoebae first.

Ha, you "argument" isn't even an argument.

Just like God is "KAPOW" your bacteria is also "KAPOW".

Instead, to me, God is there.

To you, you're saying the Big Bang just oh-so-happened to 'kersplode.

The Solar System oh-so-happened to form from a disk of dust and matter.

The Sun happened to start shining.

However, I can believe this. Why? The Sun is not living.

It's a whole lot easier to burn hydrogen, than to create life.

Because, what you guys are telling me is that the human race is a coincident. LIFE is a coincident.

That we are objects of fate and luck.
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Iris_Cam
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Iris_Cam » Sun 6th Nov 2011

Okay, the microorganisms? They come from a substance.
Known as amino acids. The building block of life.

So here's the theory: A bunch of elements, such as carbon (because we are all made from carbon. Nearly everything is made from carbon.) plus the vital bit: Electricity.

We all have electricity running through us. So it makes sense that lightning is vital in the cocktail of life.

This is one theory. Another is that there was a natural process that no longer exist.
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by TungstenMessah » Mon 7th Nov 2011

You DO know that there are many,many,many types of amino acids, correct? Juts cuz you have carbon, that doesn't mean that it'll evolve over time and create sugars, glucose, or protein. And about the electricity.

Yes, I do agree that electricity or lightning can have some profound effects on nature, such as nitrification.

Zapping electricity into hydrogen, carbon, helium will NOT give you amino acid.

Even if it DID, then what? Will tens of thousands of MILLIONS of BILLIONS congregate and create a lizard? I think not.

Let's backtrack to the amino acids. Amino acids themselves are simple enough, but lightning has nothing to do with them. Let's take a human for exmaple. Yes, we do have a teensy bit of electricity within us. About -70mV to +30mV. That can power a 100 watt bulb for about 0.3 milliseconds.

Lightning? A single strike can power the bulb for nearly TWO MONTHS.

Now, now, you must be wondering what my point is here.

The point: TOO MUCH ELECTRICITY = Fried amino acids = pretty much useless.
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Iris_Cam
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Iris_Cam » Mon 7th Nov 2011

Ahh, but that's when conduction comes in!

Short-distance electricity wires are shown to be useless because they leach so much energy elsewhere, so it would be logical that when lightning strikes someplace, it can be conducted away. And after coming in contact with the building blocks of life after losing much of the electricity, it is possible to create the early micro-organisms.

And about the lizard, I told you, evolution. One single cell reproduces, and its offspring eventually mutate into multi-cell organisms, and those multi-cell organisms eventually mutate to be slightly bigger, then some catastrophe comes and wipes out majority of the smaller ones, then they mutate to have light-sensitive cell, which eventually mutates to becomes eyes, and you get the idea.

Chance and probability, my friend. There are so many different scenarios, but there is a chance that lightning can be conducted away via water, losing voltage in progress, and frying something to life. After all, the fact that it has never been done before does not mean that it will not be done in the future.

I intend to be the Dr. Frankenstein.

(Iris Frankenstein.... har har)

This debate is turning out to be fun. I like expressing opinions. And science. And arguing.
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by TungstenMessah » Mon 7th Nov 2011

XD. How do you know electricity is the main source of all life, hmm?

We don't CONTAIN electricity.

We MAKE it.

Plus, conduction makes no sense. If one of the volts conduct, all of them conduct, so no matter what, all 500 thousand volts get zapped.

"And about the lizard, I told you, evolution. One single cell reproduces, and its offspring eventually mutate into multi-cell organisms, and those multi-cell organisms eventually mutate to be slightly bigger, then some catastrophe comes and wipes out majority of the smaller ones, then they mutate to have light-sensitive cell, which eventually mutates to becomes eyes, and you get the idea. "

To get mutation, you need the single-cells wha tevers first, and you're not getting anywhere with lightning zapping ANYTHING.
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Iris_Cam
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Iris_Cam » Tue 8th Nov 2011

Let's look at the other theory:

A natural process that no longer exists.

Why might it not exist nao?

One theory is that because we haven't got the right mix of gases in the atmosphere. When the earth started, the only gases around was carbon dioxide, water vapour, and ammonia(which eventually became nitrogen due to sunlight). So, is it something in ammonia that can trigger a natural cycle of life? It would probably take a long time, because the first life really formed only about 3.3 billion years ago.

But, as the bacteria breathed out oxygen, as part of their respiration, it may have changed the air so dramatically that said natural process can't happen.

Anyway, if there was a God, then would he allow so many people to suffer? I can explain that with karma vipaka, a Buddhist belief.

If you torture someone in this life, after your rebirth in the next life, you would be tortured, yourself. It's like, poetic justice.

Or, it could happen in the same life. What goes around, comes back around.

So, as a result, you suffer because you cause suffering.

Well, what is the motive of God to create suffering? If he is all forgiving and omnipotent, he could easily create a perfect earth, where everyone has the time of their lives, and not starve to death, or fight wars, or whatever. He would make sure that cancer doesn't exist, and that no natural disasters happen anywhere.

So, what's your explanation for that? I'm sorry if I offend anyone.
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by TungstenMessah » Wed 9th Nov 2011

MAJOR FLAW: Where did the bacteria come from?

There are many, many ways of refuting your "argument", I_C. It's simple, really.

1. Now, why does God have suffering? Did Jesus not suffer?

2. God has the power to create, right? Does he not have the power to destroy?

3. We are normal people, right? However, we have autistic people, we have the insane. But, in balance, we have the smart, the morally strong, the rich.

4. Natural disasters. Now, God HAS used natural disasters in the past to punish. I AM NOT SAYING the human race is bad. Simply it is because in order to create, you must destroy, and build anew.

God DID NOT GO: BOOM Fish! BOOM Mountain! He gradually created all the we see and cannot see.
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Iris_Cam » Wed 9th Nov 2011

Come to think of it, its kinda similar to Saint Dane in Pendragon.

Wipe out most of reality to build a perfect world.

Ok, off topic.

I told you already: Two theories, one is lightning, and the other is a natural process that no longer happens due to different air, molecule, or whatever contents.

So, since you completely dismembered the lightning theory, the second theory would be more likely.

The bacteria were formed through this natural process! Life is formed!

So, then, the evolution begins.

Also, just because you'll get to achieve some loftier purpose, it is not okay to wipe out everyone with 'imperfect qualities'. You may be cruel, but you can change for the better. You may be stingy, but you'll save someone's life as long as it won't cost you a cent. It's like killing off everything then making a new world. Like it or not, it is killing.

Also, suffering. There's two kinds of people who suffered in the past: One makes everyone else suffer as well, while the other tries to make people not suffer.

This is halfway pointless: Like debating which came first, the chicken or the egg. But its really fun.

Also, another point I want to rebut: Isn't God omnipotent and omni everything?

Also, the story is that he created humans, then everything else. But, through science, we know that's false. People came from everything else.

(Side note: Funny.... are all the others drawing back from this debate?)
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by BoboParadizo » Wed 9th Nov 2011

Iris_Cam wrote:Also, the story is that he created humans, then everything else. But, through science, we know that's false. People came from everything else.
Um, actually, he created humans last. After everything else, on the sixth day.

"Genesis 1

The Beginning

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by TungstenMessah » Thu 10th Nov 2011

No offense...but what yer saying, Bobo, has little to do with what I_C and I are debating about. Perhaps you look at it differently, but the Creation is very symbolical. Very little of it is actually literal.

I'd write more, but I'm tired. XD
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by Cleo » Wed 23rd Nov 2011

No i think god is not real...
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Re: Is God Real?

Post by heart_of_gold » Thu 24th Nov 2011

I believe in God.
And athiests make fun of me for it.
That's nothing compared to what COMMUNISTS do. .-. I know a certain one who really dug into me...
But we're friends anyway. 8D

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by evilgenius » Thu 24th Nov 2011

Not all atheists and communists mind you (though I am neither)

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by ArtyRocks » Wed 22nd Feb 2012

I don't believe in God. It's a big thing on my mom's side, they're all Christian and they would freak out if I told them, so can't really be myself and all that junk. My dad agrees with me and so does my stepmom. I just don't see any proof in it, all they have is the Bible, and there are several issues of them, if I might recall. All it is is a bunch of people writing a book. Enough said. I mean no offense to anyone who does believe in God.

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Re: Is God Real?

Post by BoboParadizo » Wed 22nd Feb 2012

But there are a lot of facts in the Bible. Written down in that book thousands of years before they were discovered by scientists.

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