Abortion

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Re: Abortion

Post by Harry Blue5 » Mon 18th Apr 2011

I support abortion, but only up to a certain week (when the brain starts to work and think independently and all that). Before that, it's just an object being grown in a woman, despite being biolgically human.
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Re: Abortion

Post by LEPreconGirl » Sat 11th Jun 2011

Rading the descriptions of abortion methods left tears literally rolling down my cheeks. These are all methods that seem based on the comfort of the mother, and the convenience of the abortion, not the child. These are all extremely painful, cruel ways to kill a baby that, if used on a person not still developing, would surely earn the person performing these acts life sentences in prison. A zygote is already a person. An extremely underdeveloped person who can't feel anything, but a person. And very rarely would a rape result in a baby. Most abortions are from people who want to do it, but not face the consequences. And who knows what that child might have become?
Think what you would do if placed in a situation with an unwanted baby. Would you be able to kill it, committing murder? I know I wouldn't. It's a person, with basic rights, including the right to life.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Battery » Sat 11th Jun 2011

LEPreconGirl wrote:And very rarely would a rape result in a baby.
Em... just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You can't just write something off because it doesn't happen to many people. There are actually quite a lot of people out there who have been raped and had it result in pregnancy. Very rarely, maybe; I don't pretend to know statistics. But please don't just pretend those people don't exist, that's just a big "screw you" in the faces of those people who it's happened to.
LEPreconGirl wrote: These are all methods that seem based on the comfort of the mother, and the convenience of the abortion, not the child.
Perhaps because the zygote, as you go on to say, cannot feel anything?
LEPreconGirl wrote:Think what you would do if placed in a situation with an unwanted baby. Would you be able to kill it, committing murder?
No, I wouldn't be able to kill an unwanted baby, committing murder. But I would be able to have an abortion, as, in my view, during the stage in which abortions are performed legally, the zygote is not yet a person.

I'm curious, how do you define a person? What does it take, in your view, to make something a person?
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Re: Abortion

Post by p5ychic » Mon 13th Jun 2011

Artificial Asian wrote:
LEPreconGirl wrote:And very rarely would a rape result in a baby.
Em... just because it doesn't happen often doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You can't just write something off because it doesn't happen to many people. There are actually quite a lot of people out there who have been raped and had it result in pregnancy. Very rarely, maybe; I don't pretend to know statistics. But please don't just pretend those people don't exist, that's just a big "screw you" in the faces of those people who it's happened to.
LEPreconGirl wrote: These are all methods that seem based on the comfort of the mother, and the convenience of the abortion, not the child.
Perhaps because the zygote, as you go on to say, cannot feel anything?
LEPreconGirl wrote:Think what you would do if placed in a situation with an unwanted baby. Would you be able to kill it, committing murder?
No, I wouldn't be able to kill an unwanted baby, committing murder. But I would be able to have an abortion, as, in my view, during the stage in which abortions are performed legally, the zygote is not yet a person.

I'm curious, how do you define a person? What does it take, in your view, to make something a person?
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I just have to reiterate that there is a difference between terminating a pregnancy and killing a baby. A woman has the right to choose, especially in the cases of rape or incest, to terminate the pregnancy if it endangers her health (physical, mental, or emotional), or irreparably changes her life (teen mothers, women whose careers or education are endangered by pregnancy, women who can't afford to support a baby or carry a fetus to term).

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Re: Abortion

Post by HollyShort9 » Mon 13th Jun 2011

I apologize beforehand for any rudeness that may appear in this post. Please don't take any of this personally, this is just my opinion stated bluntly. - HS9
theramagic wrote:I am not saying I support Abortion, but I at least think people should have the right to choose. What if They will die should the baby be born? What if it is not their fault they are having a baby? Also people who are young and about to have a baby, well, they are going to be mocked. They will not be able to play sports, and what if it is going to cost them their collage scholarship, and shot at getting a collage degree, or good job. Having a baby could ruin someones life.
I'm pretty much ignoring most of the posts in this topic because I get too agitated when I debate (I don't have a very good handle on my temper) and it always ends disastrous, but I saw this post and I want to point out a few flaws in it.
I do agree that people should have the right to choose: Thera, let's say you were pregnant. It's not MY right to choose for you whether to get an abortion or not, that's your choice, not mine. But *I* personally believe abortion is wrong.
theramagic wrote:What if They will die should the baby be born?
Kierisa12 has a little sister that the doctors told her mom that her AND the baby (I think the baby too, if not correct me K12) would die if her mom had it. Guess what? Several years later, her mom AND HER LITTLE SISTER are both healthy and happy.
If you're supposed to die at that point in time, you'll die. If you're not supposed to die, you won't. And there's no way to know FOR SURE that the baby will kill you.
Also, that would be their own fault. If you would die if the baby was born, MOST of the time (most, not all of the time) that would mean you had some sort of a health problem that you most likely knew about beforehand and chanced it anyways. OR you were raped.
theramagic wrote:What if it is not their fault they are having a baby?
Either they were raped, in which case I feel very sorry for them, or they made bad choices--and the latter is USUALLY the most frequent one. I'm not saying that people don't get pregnant from being raped, because they do, but MOST OF THE TIME it's a bad choice.
theramagic wrote:Also people who are young and about to have a baby, well, they are going to be mocked. They will not be able to play sports, and what if it is going to cost them their collage scholarship, and shot at getting a collage degree, or good job. Having a baby could ruin someones life
Again, either they were raped or made bad choices. And either way, it's not the baby's fault.
And if they WERE raped or just didn't want to take care of THEIR mistake, abortion isn't the only option, you know. There's also adoption. Ever heard of that? No, I guess that murdering an innocent, unborn baby is easier than going through the pain of labor, so I can see why most people choose that.
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Re: Abortion

Post by p5ychic » Mon 13th Jun 2011

HollyShort9 wrote:I do agree that people should have the right to choose: Thera, let's say you were pregnant. It's not MY right to choose for you whether to get an abortion or not, that's your choice, not mine. But *I* personally believe abortion is wrong.
You're not going to like me for a second, because I'm going to quote my man Barack, but "No one is pro-abortion." Even women who HAVE abortions usually don't want to do it, they only do because they have to. If you're not ready to have a baby (note: "have a baby" does not mean "raise a baby." I'm using it to refer to "carry a fetus to term," which carries with it the risk of physical damages, irreparable damages to the body, and in the case of rape and incest, the possibility of Post-traumatic stress disorder), then the choice should be on the table. Most women agonize over the decision to abort a fetus (note: not a baby. A fetus is not the same thing as a baby), and most of them are emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives by it. This image of a promiscuous woman having random sex and covering it up with multiple abortions that mean nothing to her is NOT an accurate image. Just because she "made a bad choice" as you put it (note: having sex is not a "bad choice" that means you deserve to have your life ruined by carrying a pregnancy to term and possibly raising a baby you can't afford) doesn't mean you don't care about what you're doing.

I just want to point out to you that even if you don't quite realize it, you ARE pro-choice. Pro-choice does not mean "pro-abortion," no one WANTS abortions to happen, not even the women who have them. It just means that you believe the choice belongs to the pregnant woman rather than the government.
HollyShort9 wrote:Again, either they were raped or made bad choices. And either way, it's not the baby's fault.
And if they WERE raped or just didn't want to take care of THEIR mistake, abortion isn't the only option, you know. There's also adoption. Ever heard of that? No, I guess that murdering an innocent, unborn baby is easier than going through the pain of labor, so I can see why most people choose that.
Fetus ≠ Baby. A fetus might someday become a baby, but it is not a living human until the end of the second trimester, at which point the brain starts functioning and consciousness begins. Before that point, terminating a fetus is no more murder than killing a tapeworm living in your stomach.

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Re: Abortion

Post by burningice » Mon 13th Jun 2011

Out of curiosity, if a fetus is just something growing inside a woman, how can it have different dna? How can it be part of her and still have different dna?

I belive anything with it's own heartbeat is a living thing. Killing a fetus (which will eventually turn into a baby) and killing a tadpole (which will eventually turn into a frog) could be the same thing. True, the tadpole has brain activity, but still. It will eventually develop into a frog if left alone.

In truth, I'm rather undecided on the whole issue. Personaly, I won't have one, but for others I find certain circumstances where I would accept it, and some where I wouldn't.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Bang Your Drum » Tue 14th Jun 2011

P5YCHIC wrote:
HollyShort9 wrote:I do agree that people should have the right to choose: Thera, let's say you were pregnant. It's not MY right to choose for you whether to get an abortion or not, that's your choice, not mine. But *I* personally believe abortion is wrong.
You're not going to like me for a second, because I'm going to quote my man Barack, but "No one is pro-abortion." Even women who HAVE abortions usually don't want to do it, they only do because they have to. If you're not ready to have a baby (note: "have a baby" does not mean "raise a baby." I'm using it to refer to "carry a fetus to term," which carries with it the risk of physical damages, irreparable damages to the body, and in the case of rape and incest, the possibility of Post-traumatic stress disorder), then the choice should be on the table. Most women agonize over the decision to abort a fetus (note: not a baby. A fetus is not the same thing as a baby), and most of them are emotionally scarred for the rest of their lives by it. This image of a promiscuous woman having random sex and covering it up with multiple abortions that mean nothing to her is NOT an accurate image. Just because she "made a bad choice" as you put it (note: having sex is not a "bad choice" that means you deserve to have your life ruined by carrying a pregnancy to term and possibly raising a baby you can't afford) doesn't mean you don't care about what you're doing.

I just want to point out to you that even if you don't quite realize it, you ARE pro-choice. Pro-choice does not mean "pro-abortion," no one WANTS abortions to happen, not even the women who have them. It just means that you believe the choice belongs to the pregnant woman rather than the government.
HollyShort9 wrote:Again, either they were raped or made bad choices. And either way, it's not the baby's fault.
And if they WERE raped or just didn't want to take care of THEIR mistake, abortion isn't the only option, you know. There's also adoption. Ever heard of that? No, I guess that murdering an innocent, unborn baby is easier than going through the pain of labor, so I can see why most people choose that.
Fetus ≠ Baby. A fetus might someday become a baby, but it is not a living human until the end of the second trimester, at which point the brain starts functioning and consciousness begins. Before that point, terminating a fetus is no more murder than killing a tapeworm living in your stomach.
Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Also was that was an Arrested Development quote when you replied to AA?
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Re: Abortion

Post by p5ychic » Tue 14th Jun 2011

burningice wrote:Out of curiosity, if a fetus is just something growing inside a woman, how can it have different dna? How can it be part of her and still have different dna?

I belive anything with it's own heartbeat is a living thing. Killing a fetus (which will eventually turn into a baby) and killing a tadpole (which will eventually turn into a frog) could be the same thing. True, the tadpole has brain activity, but still. It will eventually develop into a frog if left alone.

In truth, I'm rather undecided on the whole issue. Personaly, I won't have one, but for others I find certain circumstances where I would accept it, and some where I wouldn't.
I'll take this point-by-point.

One. The fetus is growing inside her and feeding off her, but is not a part of her. The thing it can be most accurately compared to is a parasite, for example a tapeworm.

Two. The heart is not the driving force for a living being. That's a common misconception. The heart is not where the spark of life in a human comes from, it doesn't make a person any more human than a liver does. In fact, many people alive today survive without a beating heart, for example, Former Vice President **** Cheney. (That's not political satire, it's actually true. He had so many heart problems that he had a mechanical pump installed in his chest that keeps blood flowing without a heartbeat. **** Cheney's heart no longer beats and he's still walking around, perfectly alive.) The only reason the heart exists is to make sure oxygen gets sent to the brain. The heart is controlled by signals sent by the unconscious part of the brain. The point is, the heart is just another organ. What makes a fetus more alive than the billions of microorganisms you kill every time you wash your hands is the brain. Mechanical attachments can keep you alive without a heart, but if someone completely loses use of their brain, the signals that force all the vital organs to keep going stop, the body fails, and the person dies. The only reason a fetus survives long enough for its brain to grow and then turn on is because its vital systems are controlled by the mother's body. Brain activity is what makes the distinction between "human" and "alive."

Three. Tadpoles and Fetuses are totally different. Tadpoles have left the egg, gone out into the world, and had life experience. The tadpole analogy would be more like killing a toddler or small child than it would be killing a fetus, because a tadpole is self-aware and a fetus is generally not until it would be too late to get an abortion for non-life-threatening situations anyway.

"I find certain circumstances where I would accept it, and some where I wouldn't." You, my friend, have just summed up the pro-choice philosophy.

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Re: Abortion

Post by Iris_Cam » Sat 12th Nov 2011

Personally, I believe that people should not start flaming people who do abortion unless they know ALL of the facts. Including the way the foetus is conceived, whether by rape, or legal, or whatever.
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Re: Abortion

Post by StarFire101 » Mon 14th Nov 2011

Yes. I am for it. Adoption is sad. I know this because I am adopted. It's the worst possible feeling in the world to grow up without knowing your mother and father. I'd rather not grow up at all. :(
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Re: Abortion

Post by Iris_Cam » Sat 19th Nov 2011

I think abortion is like killing a bunch of micro-organisms. They have the potential to evolve into sentient creatures, as they've did it before. They can cause sickness, and even death. But they can't think.

So, abortion is more like killing off potential than killing off an actual being. You cut a wire while you're still in the early stages of making a necklace, rather than dumping the whole thing in the bin after it's done(sorry. I like beading). If you cut the wire, then the stump will never be a necklace, and you have taken away the chance for the wire to be a necklace. If you throw away the finished product, you're throwing away the necklace.

Sorry for my ramblings.....
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Re: Abortion

Post by Ash Kelp » Fri 27th Jan 2012

Saving the baby would sometimes kill the mother, I think it should be legal, but only if you're reffered. No one should walk into some random clinic and randomly say "kill my baby."

It depends on the situation.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Fowl's_Girl » Fri 27th Jan 2012

I am personally very against abortion.

A 'fetus' is a real baby, even though he/she might not look like it at first. If you didn't want to get pregnant, then why 'do it' in the first place? Abortion isn't the only option either. You can keep the baby, put he/she up for adoption, or don't 'do it'.

Yes, if a girl gets raped, she couldn't have chosen that last one, but still, the other two choices are there. Abortion is murder, because the baby is a real person, and should be given a chance to live, no matter what conditions they would grow up in. 'Pro-choice' is a very nice and convenient way to say 'pro-abortion'. If you think about it, it is the same thing.

If someone gets an abortion, the killed baby didn't get a chance to live. Most likely, he/she would have chosen to live, but now they can't. Maybe he/she would have grown up to become someone great.

'Being adopted is better than being dead." I know someone who was adopted, and who said those words. He likes that his birth parents put him up for adoption, even though he's never met them. He said he was proud that his parents gave him a chance to live, though with a different family. I know some adopted kids don't feel the same way, but I'm just saying another's opinion.

The situation for wanting to get an abortion does vary greatly, especially if the girl was raped. But I feel abortion is still wrong. It would be the girl's fault for the baby's murder, if she was the one who chose it, even though she didn't want the baby yet in the first place.
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Re: Abortion

Post by Ash Kelp » Fri 27th Jan 2012

It is Killing someone i do agree with that, but we kill each other, and ANIMALS all the time, abortion should be for sick baby's.

(over-population is a good reason to have it also.)
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