Abortion

Debates of a more controversial nature, and discussions on the latest world events. Give your opinions, but no flaming!
Post Reply
User avatar
Feandril
Centaur Genius
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed 12th Dec 2007
Location: Everywhere... Where you least expect me!

Re: Abortion

Post by Feandril » Thu 11th Feb 2010

You cannot force your beliefs and opinions on others. Laws and states should allow everyone to live with greatest amount of rights and security. Right to choose whether to bear a child, should be left mostly to mother - especially in cases of risky pregnancy and rape. I'm not saying I like it, but it's only fair. I discourage it always, but I cannot say it should be illegal.

Again I will tell you: Walk a mile in one's boots - then judge him.
This debate(between you two) is pretty much senseless. You have entirely different opinions and set of morals(I'd say). It really doesn't look like you'll ever agree on things.
She doesn't believe the Bible. Period. 90% of your arguments fall. Face it.
Image
Image
Image
Place My Body On A Ship And Burn It To The Sea
Let My Spirit Rise, Valkyries Carry Me
Take Me To Valhalla Where My Brothers Wait For Me
Fire Burning To The Sky My Spirit Will Never Die!

KierisaNOT12
it's over 9000
Posts: 10749
Joined: Wed 17th Dec 2008
Location: Stuck down here in Texas.

Re: Abortion

Post by KierisaNOT12 » Thu 11th Feb 2010

Imma not trying to force my believe, but I still think its down right evil.
Image

User avatar
Feandril
Centaur Genius
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed 12th Dec 2007
Location: Everywhere... Where you least expect me!

Re: Abortion

Post by Feandril » Thu 11th Feb 2010

I think it's bad, as well... Just don't make it illegal. Discuss about it, discourage it, convince them - but choice still must exist.
Image
Image
Image
Place My Body On A Ship And Burn It To The Sea
Let My Spirit Rise, Valkyries Carry Me
Take Me To Valhalla Where My Brothers Wait For Me
Fire Burning To The Sky My Spirit Will Never Die!

User avatar
Harry Blue5
Troll
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun 2nd Aug 2009
Location: Haven (A.K.A. My House)

Re: Abortion

Post by Harry Blue5 » Thu 11th Feb 2010

Have to agree with Feandril here, while I do not like people having abortions, I still think the option should be there and I have no problem with people who have an abortion. It's sad but I understand why some people choose to have it, and I understand why they do it.

If you disagree with me PLEASE don't quote the bible. For debating purposes I hate it when I'm given the same book as evidence. Surely if the Bible is morally right, then other non-Christians should have lots of books about similar morals? For evidence to be truly reliable you need more than one book or study to do it, preferably more than three.

EDIT: Yes I know the Bible is more than one book, technically. But they're all based on eachother with hope that the other books are true. Other than when it contradicts itself, of course.
"I liked you better asleep, my head hurt less"
ImageImageImage
ImageImage

User avatar
Visorak16
LEPrecon Officer
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon 20th Jul 2009
Location: wouldn't you like to know :P

Re: Abortion

Post by Visorak16 » Thu 11th Feb 2010

Have to agree with Feandril here, while I do not like people having abortions, I still think the option should be there and I have no problem with people who have an abortion. It's sad but I understand why some people choose to have it, and I understand why they do it.
Why does there have to be choice about some things, but no choice when it comes to other things? Why can I not murder with my body.
If you disagree with me PLEASE don't quote the bible. For debating purposes I hate it when I'm given the same book as evidence. Surely if the Bible is morally right, then other non-Christians should have lots of books about similar morals? For evidence to be truly reliable you need more than one book or study to do it, preferably more than three.
What makes something right or wrong?
EDIT: Yes I know the Bible is more than one book, technically. But they're all based on eachother with hope that the other books are true. Other than when it contradicts itself, of course.
The Bible does not contradict itself.
God bless.
Image
Image
Visorak16 is proud to present All or Nothing My Book!

User avatar
JLHxXxX
LEP Commander
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon 6th Jul 2009
Gender: Female
Location: Dancing on the Eiffel Tower with Kitty~

Re: Abortion

Post by JLHxXxX » Thu 11th Feb 2010

I have more of a ''neutral'' thought on abortion. Many teens aren't ready for the responsibility, even though they could send them to a foster home, sometime's it's easier to abort. Like Fean said, we should have the choice, you can hate it, most people probobly don't like to kill these babies, (I know my sister's friend didn't want to) But sometimes it can be for better or for worse in the scenario. What if you were... r**ed? (Yeah, yeah, what if) Do you really want that child? Yet there are worse parts I think is wrong when foolish teens don't use protection, which is right out there, or possibly people just not wanting the responsibility when they're perfectly capable (adults)
Waiting for the bus that never comes is silly. Once you start to walk, every opportunity will be stopping you in your tracks to greet you.

~HaTheAngel~

User avatar
cookieninja
LEP Commander
Posts: 2338
Joined: Mon 7th Sep 2009
Gender: Female
Location: At her dream concert :)
Contact:

Re: Abortion

Post by cookieninja » Fri 12th Feb 2010

I think this relys on thought. i am not going to pay attention to any previous statements and just make mine.
Now, how would you feel to be born unwanted into the world? How would you like to be sent to a foster home or orphanage? How would you like to be abandoned?
I think that life should be preserved whenever it can and that abortion is not always the answer. It IS ending a life, but the life may be insecure if born. Many aren't ready for the responsibility of a child and it not only ruins the lives of YOUNG parents if born but the child's life can be altered to. For if the parent chooses to keep a child and they are still a teenager then it can ruin chances of graduating. Young parents can'r often find jobs and support the child either. And if it is born and abandoned...? Well again how would you feel to be born unwanted into the world? How would you like to be sent to a foster home or orphanage? How would you like to be abandoned?
Image
The best comedy around. Monty Python. Please, don't hesitate to look them up.
++++++++++
Number One Rule of the World wrote:Something goes wrong? Blame Pete Wentz.
Wentz not available? Blame Gabe Saporta.

Cookie Shamelessly Promotes Her Writing in Her Signature

User avatar
Visorak16
LEPrecon Officer
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon 20th Jul 2009
Location: wouldn't you like to know :P

Re: Abortion

Post by Visorak16 » Fri 12th Feb 2010

Now, how would you feel to be born unwanted into the world? How would you like to be sent to a foster home or orphanage? How would you like to be abandoned?
That would stink, but at least I would be alive.
Many aren't ready for the responsibility of a child and it not only ruins the lives of YOUNG parents if born but the child's life can be altered to.
Then why did they do the things that lead to pregnancy? It is obvious that they are probably not responsible, but they had better learn responsibility quick. It is irresponsible to abandon their duty to their child.
For if the parent chooses to keep a child and they are still a teenager then it can ruin chances of graduating. Young parents can'r often find jobs and support the child either.
People really should think about those sorts of things before they make love as it were. The laws of the Bible are often there for our protection as much as anything else.
God bless.
Image
Image
Visorak16 is proud to present All or Nothing My Book!

User avatar
Harry Blue5
Troll
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun 2nd Aug 2009
Location: Haven (A.K.A. My House)

Re: Abortion

Post by Harry Blue5 » Sat 13th Feb 2010

Why does there have to be choice about some things, but no choice when it comes to other things? Why can I not murder with my body.
Because presumably when abortion takes place they feel no pain, and when abortion takes place they still aren't human. The person you would kill would be human and be sentient being, while during abortion the person has no real brain, no proper feelings, etc. What happens when a baby is born? Million of sperms are lost in the process, why does no one care about that? Or that a potential baby is killed every month when an egg cell is thrown out.

While I see the points that the babies (I've forgotten the scientific name for non-born humans) are human I don't believe we should get rid of abortion. And while I prefer potential beings to not be aborted, so to speak, stuff happens and the mother may not be ready of a baby yet.
What makes something right or wrong?
Nothing whatsoever. For all I know I'm figment of my own imagination. However things are a lot more likely to be correct if there are more than one sources, and the sources are independent and don't rely on the other to be correct.
The Bible does not contradict itself.
Yes. Yes it does. Usually on only minor details, but sometimes it contradicts itself on bigger matters.
"I liked you better asleep, my head hurt less"
ImageImageImage
ImageImage

User avatar
Visorak16
LEPrecon Officer
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon 20th Jul 2009
Location: wouldn't you like to know :P

Re: Abortion

Post by Visorak16 » Sat 13th Feb 2010

Because presumably when abortion takes place they feel no pain, and when abortion takes place they still aren't human.
A presumption is something believed without actual evidence. At conception, babies are genetically human, biologically alive, and can react to stimuli. http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... k-abortion http://www.equip.org/articles/annihilat ... r-abortion for more info. Now your argument is weak. Aborted babies do feel pain, but even if they didn't, a murderer could advocate murder if he put people to sleep.
The person you would kill would be human and be sentient being, while during abortion the person has no real brain, no proper feelings, etc.
So the murder was a little late term. Honestly though, babies have been known to react to their surroundings, and they develope a "proper" brain in ony a few weaks of developement. Your argument is also based on the false and unprovable assumption that the material universe is all that there is.
What happens when a baby is born? Million of sperms are lost in the process, why does no one care about that? Or that a potential baby is killed every month when an egg cell is thrown out.
Neither sperm nor eggs are genetically human or biologically alive.
While I see the points that the babies (I've forgotten the scientific name for non-born humans) are human I don't believe we should get rid of abortion.
I think the word you are looking for is fetus, which is latin for child or offspring.
And while I prefer potential beings to not be aborted, so to speak, stuff happens and the mother may not be ready of a baby yet.
What if a mother figures out that she is not ready for children after the child is born? Can she kill him/her then?
Nothing whatsoever. For all I know I'm figment of my own imagination. However things are a lot more likely to be correct if there are more than one sources, and the sources are independent and don't rely on the other to be correct.
Since you have said nothing whasoever, then nothing makes your position right (nothing also makes your posisition wrong). Also, the appeal to the majority is a logical fallacy.

God bless
Image
Image
Visorak16 is proud to present All or Nothing My Book!

User avatar
Meova
Fangathering Fever patient
Posts: 7628
Joined: Fri 28th Sep 2007
Location: Not sure, but I'm probably writing.
Contact:

Re: Abortion

Post by Meova » Sun 14th Feb 2010

Visorak16 wrote:What if a mother figures out that she is not ready for children after the child is born? Can she kill him/her then?
She can put her child up for adoption.
My opinion still is, if a woman knows she's not ready for children when she becomes pregnant, it's unfair to let her go through the entire pregnancy and, if she wouldn't put it up for adoption, to force her to raise the child. If you didn't choose for something, it's unfair and not done to make them handle the consequences. If they chose for it - by all means, they should be held responsible. I'm for that. But if you didn't, you should have the option of abortion. A mistake or incident should not lead to nine months of suffering and being reminded of the mistake or incident.
ImageImageImageImage
Image
My LiveJournal. Spread the word! ;)
Darvit, 1holly, and also our beloved /b/, we'll never forget you!
AugNo Winner of 2009! :awesome:
1/4/10. Watch it. It'll be huge.

User avatar
Visorak16
LEPrecon Officer
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon 20th Jul 2009
Location: wouldn't you like to know :P

Re: Abortion

Post by Visorak16 » Sun 14th Feb 2010

She can put her child up for adoption.
My opinion still is, if a woman knows she's not ready for children when she becomes pregnant, it's unfair to let her go through the entire pregnancy and, if she wouldn't put it up for adoption, to force her to raise the child.
It is unfair to kill children, in the womb or out. If the world was fair, then everyone would be dead.
If you didn't choose for something, it's unfair and not done to make them handle the consequences.
Technically, the girl did choose. She chose to do something which she was not ready for. The baby should not be killed for something she or anyone esle did. We make people suffer the consequences of things they did not directly choose all the time, from accepting test scores, to allowing children to be raised by the family they were born into (unless something goes wrong).
A mistake or incident should not lead to nine months of suffering and being reminded of the mistake or incident.
We should allow people to go through the consequences of their mistakes. People have to pay the bill if they break their arm, and people have to spend time in jail if they disobey certain laws. You are treating children as if they are a punishment or a blight. That's should help people with their self-esteem, not. You were a baby once too. Furthermore, we should not punish an innocent bystander for what other people did.
God bless.
Image
Image
Visorak16 is proud to present All or Nothing My Book!

User avatar
JLHxXxX
LEP Commander
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon 6th Jul 2009
Gender: Female
Location: Dancing on the Eiffel Tower with Kitty~

Re: Abortion

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 14th Feb 2010

May I mention, ''incident'' as she said, that doesn't have to be she chose to have fun that night, rapists are highly on most-wanted lists everywhere. Then what? As she said, would you want a child that shouldn't even be here, that was never intended to join this world, make her suffer for something that was not her fault?
Waiting for the bus that never comes is silly. Once you start to walk, every opportunity will be stopping you in your tracks to greet you.

~HaTheAngel~

User avatar
Meova
Fangathering Fever patient
Posts: 7628
Joined: Fri 28th Sep 2007
Location: Not sure, but I'm probably writing.
Contact:

Re: Abortion

Post by Meova » Sun 14th Feb 2010

It is unfair to kill children, in the womb or out. If the world was fair, then everyone would be dead.
They're not children in the womb. They're parasites, at least until week 26. Now tell me - if you have a parasite you didn't want, wouldn't you kill it too?
Technically, the girl did choose. She chose to do something which she was not ready for. The baby should not be killed for something she or anyone esle did. We make people suffer the consequences of things they did not directly choose all the time, from accepting test scores, to allowing children to be raised by the family they were born into (unless something goes wrong).
What did the girl choose for that she wasn't ready for? I can't recall a girl having a choice in getting pregnant. I surely never had that choice. You can be ready for sex, yet not want children.
Not everyone believes in abstaining from intercourse until you're married, honey ;)
Test scores aren't at all like being pregnant. You can study and practice for a test. If you don't and you fail - that's your fault. If you get pregnant - it's not always your fault. And you surely can't practice being a mother.
We should allow people to go through the consequences of their mistakes. People have to pay the bill if they break their arm, and people have to spend time in jail if they disobey certain laws. You are treating children as if they are a punishment or a blight. That's should help people with their self-esteem, not. You were a baby once too. Furthermore, we should not punish an innocent bystander for what other people did.
What if they're not the ones who made the mistake? There's a story on FML about a woman whose mother deliberately sabotaged her birth control so she could become a grams. Birth control isn't 100% reliable. Condoms can break. It's not always your fault.
Pay the bill? Oh, right. American. We have health insurance for that, which pays for it all.
If people disobey a law they chose for it. I'm talking mistakes here. Not first trying to get a child, then deciding you don't want it when you're finally pregnant.
God bless.
God gave up on me a long time ago.
ImageImageImageImage
Image
My LiveJournal. Spread the word! ;)
Darvit, 1holly, and also our beloved /b/, we'll never forget you!
AugNo Winner of 2009! :awesome:
1/4/10. Watch it. It'll be huge.

User avatar
Visorak16
LEPrecon Officer
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon 20th Jul 2009
Location: wouldn't you like to know :P

Re: Abortion

Post by Visorak16 » Mon 15th Feb 2010

They're not children in the womb. They're parasites, at least until week 26. Now tell me - if you have a parasite you didn't want, wouldn't you kill it too?
Technically speaking, every living thing is a parasite because they depend on other things. Also, they are children in the womb. They are genetically human and biologically alive.
What did the girl choose for that she wasn't ready for? I can't recall a girl having a choice in getting pregnant. I surely never had that choice. You can be ready for sex, yet not want children.
People can choose to have sex. Honestly, am I the only one on this site that cares about ratings? This site would probably be rated R. Back on topic, what people want does not matter.
Not everyone believes in abstaining from intercourse until you're married, honey
Too bad for them. That does not justify murder.
Test scores aren't at all like being pregnant. You can study and practice for a test. If you don't and you fail - that's your fault. If you get pregnant - it's not always your fault.
Doing the things that lead to pregnancy can lead to pregnancy. Likewise not studying for a test will likely result in a low grade. They chose what to do.
And you surely can't practice being a mother.
That is the advantage of living in a big family, one can practice being responsible and to some extent, being a parent.
What if they're not the ones who made the mistake? There's a story on FML about a woman whose mother deliberately sabotaged her birth control so she could become a grams. Birth control isn't 100% reliable. Condoms can break.
This sounds like something I would say.
It's not always your fault.
The ultimate "birth control" is self-control.
Pay the bill? Oh, right. American. We have health insurance for that, which pays for it all.
If people disobey a law they chose for it. I'm talking mistakes here. Not first trying to get a child, then deciding you don't want it when you're finally pregnant.
People can choose to do the things that lead to pregnancy, just like people can choose to do the things that lead to a car crash.
God gave up on me a long time ago.
I doubt that. God says that whoever repents of their sins and turns to Him will be saved. God loves you, and He does not want you to die.
God bless.
Image
Image
Visorak16 is proud to present All or Nothing My Book!

Post Reply