Homosexuality

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JLHxXxX
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Sat 14th Jul 2012

Like I have said before, it is pure irony. The country that was created from change is the most fearful to face it.

It's wrong. People keep taking away more and more rights. God, this makes me want Obama for president. At least he hasn't spoken *against* LGBT. We'll see.

It's their rights, their life. How, in the name of God and all his glory to these nuts, does that affect them? They go against their religion by hating. They're predestining these people, something highly frowned upon in all bibles. It puts themselves in the shoes of their God, which is a sin beyond all belief.

Just accept their love. They make no more of a show than hetero couples. Live and let live. It's that simple. You can't control everything around you, so stop trying.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by world is quiet here » Sat 14th Jul 2012

Bang Your Drum wrote: The Bible is not intended to be sexist and homophobic, it just happened to be written over 1000 years ago. It was based around the social ideals of the time it was written, Jesus had no problem with slavery but also talked about mercy and love.

Indeed, it was written a long time ago. But, if it wasn't any of them, wouldn't they change the Bible, or let the two be able to do the things they want to do? :?

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Re: Homosexuality

Post by Ash Kelp » Sat 14th Jul 2012

When the bible was written I don't Think there was such a thing as homosexuality. So most of the 'it's not right to do this because god said so' stuff is wrong.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Sat 14th Jul 2012

Homosexuality has been around longer than peace wars, longer than slavery, longer than women without rights. It's one of the oldest issues known to mankind that won't be accepted. It has been taught forever that it is 'wrong'.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by bentj96 » Sat 14th Jul 2012

JLHxXxX wrote:Homosexuality has been around longer than peace wars, longer than slavery, longer than women without rights. It's one of the oldest issues known to mankind that won't be accepted. It has been taught forever that it is 'wrong'.
@Ash Kelp It's older than mankind itself. Homosexuality is completely relevant in the animal kingdom. However, I do think it is not 'right' in particular. But that is only in the sense that it is not beneficial to the race and it is quite rare in comparison to heterosexuality.

Either way, there is point in talking about the Bible. People in any free country (specifically, one with a constitution protecting rights) have the right to their own religion, so they are set entirely apart from the Bible (or any other book for that matter). Any religious person who is against homosexuality has the right to raise issue in the matter, but when they invade the rights of others, that goes too far. When they become violent, they are insulting the deity they are defending. There is always a line to be drawn.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 15th Jul 2012

Politically, the banning of homosexual marriage is wrong. We are denying every day people rights they deserve and need. Plus, marriage... wait..

IS NOT RELIGIOUS. We have made marriage religious! Marriage is a promise of two people to make a lifelong committment to each other! Not promising to God or having this huge ceremony with "god approving in the crowd". Okay? Marriage is the binding of two people in love in a promise to always be together and to always love each other.

So, even if we 'ban' these ceremonies, boohoo. Marriages will still happen. No one needs a document to say they love someone. Never have had to, shouldn't now.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by world is quiet here » Sun 15th Jul 2012

Ash Kelp wrote:When the bible was written I don't Think there was such a thing as homosexuality. So most of the 'it's not right to do this because god said so' stuff is wrong.
I should of explained better, sorry. I meant that God wants us to do good stuff, no? Well, then wouldn't s/he be proud of him/her if we modernized to a more modern version of what we think of things now.
world is quiet here wrote:
Bang Your Drum wrote: The Bible is not intended to be sexist and homophobic, it just happened to be written over 1000 years ago. It was based around the social ideals of the time it was written, Jesus had no problem with slavery but also talked about mercy and love.

Indeed, it was written a long time ago. But, if it wasn't any of them, wouldn't they change the Bible, or let the two be able to do the things they want to do? :?

To add on to what I said, there are also stories in the bible against homosexuals.
JLHxXxX wrote:Politically, the banning of homosexual marriage is wrong. We are denying every day people rights they deserve and need. Plus, marriage... wait..

IS NOT RELIGIOUS. We have made marriage religious! Marriage is a promise of two people to make a lifelong committment to each other! Not promising to God or having this huge ceremony with "god approving in the crowd". Okay? Marriage is the binding of two people in love in a promise to always be together and to always love each other.

So, even if we 'ban' these ceremonies, boohoo. Marriages will still happen. No one needs a document to say they love someone. Never have had to, shouldn't now.
I think you explained that very well. I totally agree.
Ash Kelp wrote:When the bible was written I don't Think there was such a thing as homosexuality. So most of the 'it's not right to do this because god said so' stuff is wrong.
And, there was homosexuals before humankind, so yes, it may not of being admitted (for obvious reasons of how people would react), but it was always around.
bentj96 wrote:
JLHxXxX wrote:Homosexuality has been around longer than peace wars, longer than slavery, longer than women without rights. It's one of the oldest issues known to mankind that won't be accepted. It has been taught forever that it is 'wrong'.
Either way, there is point in talking about the Bible. People in any free country (specifically, one with a constitution protecting rights) have the right to their own religion, so they are set entirely apart from the Bible (or any other book for that matter). Any religious person who is against homosexuality has the right to raise issue in the matter, but when they invade the rights of others, that goes too far. When they become violent, they are insulting the deity they are defending. There is always a line to be drawn.
So, you're saying that homosexuals CONSISTENTLY ask for homosexual marriges, and the church reject, reject and reject, and they never get it, but keep on trying. So you're saying that they are 'going to far' to try and get some basic rights? So they will have to create their own religon for homosexuals, even if they are born a certain religon which will never allow it? Because that's terrible. If they are a dedicated faith, and they are forced to leave it for sexuality. :shock:

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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 15th Jul 2012

The church should not have the RIGHT to reject. In a way right now, the church and controlling the government. We came here to ESCAPE that, for crying out loud. We might as well not let atheists, agnostics, BUDDHISTS get married. Because they have no right to go through their "christian ceremony" (which it is not) and not get married, no? Because marriage is the only definition of true love.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by bentj96 » Sun 15th Jul 2012

world is quiet here wrote:
bentj96 wrote:
JLHxXxX wrote:Homosexuality has been around longer than peace wars, longer than slavery, longer than women without rights. It's one of the oldest issues known to mankind that won't be accepted. It has been taught forever that it is 'wrong'.
Either way, there is point in talking about the Bible. People in any free country (specifically, one with a constitution protecting rights) have the right to their own religion, so they are set entirely apart from the Bible (or any other book for that matter). Any religious person who is against homosexuality has the right to raise issue in the matter, but when they invade the rights of others, that goes too far. When they become violent, they are insulting the deity they are defending. There is always a line to be drawn.
So, you're saying that homosexuals CONSISTENTLY ask for homosexual marriges, and the church reject, reject and reject, and they never get it, but keep on trying. So you're saying that they are 'going to far' to try and get some basic rights? So they will have to create their own religon for homosexuals, even if they are born a certain religon which will never allow it? Because that's terrible. If they are a dedicated faith, and they are forced to leave it for sexuality. :shock:
I never said that. They go too far when they assault gay couples or move to ban them utterly. I never said anything about marriages, though the Bible is said to deny the union of two people of the same sex. Even that is not said directly. The Bible only says marriage is between a man and a woman.
JLHxXxX wrote:The church should not have the RIGHT to reject. In a way right now, the church and controlling the government. We came here to ESCAPE that, for crying out loud. We might as well not let atheists, agnostics, BUDDHISTS get married. Because they have no right to go through their "christian ceremony" (which it is not) and not get married, no? Because marriage is the only definition of true love.
I disagree. The church is cannot be forced to do anything. They have the right to believe it is wrong. Marrying two people is a service.

Anyway, marriage is not true love, not at all. Anyone can marry for any reason. In reality, marriage is a piece of paper that binds two people by certain laws. Half of marriages fail in the first place. It cannot be the definition of true love.

Above all, marriage is a word applied to the union of two people by the Christian church. So the union is marriage, but marriage is not the union.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by world is quiet here » Sun 15th Jul 2012

^ It sounded like you did say it...
JLHxXxX wrote:The church should not have the RIGHT to reject. In a way right now, the church and controlling the government. We came here to ESCAPE that, for crying out loud. We might as well not let atheists, agnostics, BUDDHISTS get married. Because they have no right to go through their "christian ceremony" (which it is not) and not get married, no? Because marriage is the only definition of true love.
bentj6 wrote:I disagree. The church cannot be forced to do anything.
Anyway, marriage is not true love, not at all. Anyone can marry for any reason. In reality, marriage is a piece of paper that binds two people by certain laws. Half of marriages fail in the first place. It cannot be the definition of true love.

Above all, marriage is a word applied to the union of two people by the Christian church. So the union is marriage, but marriage is not the union.[/quote]
So, as I said before, homosexuals won't be able to make a step IN their religon, because the church won't let them, and the church 'welcomes' people to their religon (the pope) and then homosexuals won't let them in, which is against the bit saying: 'we are all welcome in the eyes of God', and they are going against their OWN religon, by not accepting that fact. But, no the church can do what it wants, but not letting homosexuals having marrige is against one of the most IMPORTANT thing in Christian religon ('we are all equal in the eyes of God'), so they aren't exactly the best people.

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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Sun 15th Jul 2012

It's not only Christianity. I'm trying to point it towards a political stance.

The alliance has become a huge battle of "right" and "wrong". And it has also been about "religion" but so many refuse to see the political side. Many refuse to realize that they are taking away someone's rights. These rights were not created in the views of religion or God, but the need for equality and acceptance and correctness of the government.

Right and wrong have no say. What should have a say is that we are taking away people's first ammendment even MORE. They are going entirely against the consitution when they bring religion into this ammendment. Because that is all that is discussd. That it is not accepted in THEIR RELIGION. Murder is not accepted in any religion, but it still happens, right? (not including cults)

Why should we care what the religions think? We've even tried to ban Islamic. That goes against why pilgrims FLED TO AMERICA. For religious acceptance and freedom of expression. Where is it going?

I wish people would stop saying "I think it's wrong!" And realize, well there's plenty that goes on in this world that YOU think is wrong. But to try and make it your own perfect world will make it hell for someone else.

(You/I/me/whatever does not pertain to any particular individual.)
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by bentj96 » Mon 16th Jul 2012

@world is quiet here I never disagreed that the church has right to protest. I am just saying that on occasion, it simply goes much too far. I mentioned violence against couples, or openly insulting them. That is simply against the law.

Movements against gay marriage, trying to convince gay couples they are doing something wrong, reaching out to them etc. is perfectly fine.

Anyway, the constitution allows people to be gay and the constitution is above all law. However, it is still up to a judge to tell the government to change the law. There is a majority vote there, but not by the government, by the judicial branch.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by Bang Your Drum » Mon 16th Jul 2012

The phrase "gay marriage" is actually not the catch all phrase... see your sex does not always match your gender. So you could identify as a man but be a legal/bio woman and want to marry a women, so you are not part of a homosexual couple in your mind, just in body.
Just pointing that out for further discussion.
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Re: Homosexuality

Post by bentj96 » Mon 16th Jul 2012

Bang Your Drum wrote:The phrase "gay marriage" is actually not the catch all phrase... see your sex does not always match your gender. So you could identify as a man but be a legal/bio woman and want to marry a women, so you are not part of a homosexual couple in your mind, just in body.
Just pointing that out for further discussion.
It is really just a term. People have moved to same-sex marriage, but there always relics left behind.

Moving on. Byddie's comment got me thinking, would the Christian church, or any other for that matter, oppose marriage between the two people mentioned in the above quote? On one hand, those who are more spiritual would say it is the mindset that counts. On the other hand, there are those who think same-sex marriage is wrong because no offspring are produced and therefore cannot aid in spreading the word about what ever religion it may be. The rare extremist may say that a person who identifies as a man and is otherwise a woman is just work of the devil. Just adding to the sea of ideas. :)

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Re: Homosexuality

Post by JLHxXxX » Tue 17th Jul 2012

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingf ... washington

Just for those who believe this is a Christian nation with a Constitution based off of the bible and morals.
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