Artemis's Girl: Who?

What do you think will happen in the next installment of the Fowl series?

Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby EpicFanSauce » Fri 7th Jan 2011

Ah, the never-ending argument. I vote Artemis/Holly, personaly! Minerva was kind of a whining jerk that turns down ponies... what 12-year-old girl turns down a pony? :shock: Juliet is waaaaaay out of his league. After all, after TLC, she would be almost 18-20...? Artemis stayed at 14/15. Who cares about inter-species romance? I actually dislike Twilight... a lot. But, that was human/vampire or human/werewolf.
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby Soulcatcher » Tue 11th Jan 2011

I know this was posted a couple of months ago, but I was skimming the thread and a couple of point caught my eye that I wanted to comment on:

2. Hint, hint. Has anyone ever mentioned how old Holly is in fairy years? *wink* Think about it. She's around 80 years, no? Say, one fairy year, or one elf year is five human years. 80/5=16. As far age goes, Holly could be 16 years old in fairy years, making her a teenager like Artemis in that same aspect.
In human years, yeah, way older, but come on, fairies live so much longer then humans it's not logical to determine fairy maturity in human years. Since 80 years is still youthful for fairies, Holly's 80 years is on par or at least close to Arty's 15 years (16 in a book or two, if there is more books then eight). AGE PROBLEM SOLVED.


Sorry, but no. Not at all. Colfer never gives a direct correlation between fairy and human ages but, even so, how many adolescents do you know who are captains on an elite police force? Youthful does not equal adolescence. Colfer says Holly is still youthful for a fairy because they live for centuries, but clearly she is meant to be a fully grown adult. I would equate her age probably to mid-late twenties; she's been through school, worked her way up the ranks of her job, and clearly has a lot of life experience. Think about it; fairies age slower than humans, yes, but that means they'll still go through the physical stages of infancy, childhood, adolescence and then adulthood. And Holly is very clearly a fully grown adult, albeit one that is still classed as 'youthful'. Age will always be a problem with Artemis and Holly.

3. Arty is considered adolescent, but come on. He's not your normal human. He matured (in some ways) to adult standards, so he might as well be a fully grown adult for his species as well. Also, considering that they are different species, standards tend to blur out of focus since they're already worlds different from each other. So other superficial reasons such as who is fully grown or what age they are are small compared to those kinds of differences. MATURITY IS NO OBJECT.


There is a difference between intelligence and maturity. Arty's IQ and intelligence are far higher than your average human, but emotionally he is still a teenage boy - as Colfer details by Artemis's frustration with puberty and his inability to understand girls. He might be able to solve insane maths and science problems, but that doesn't make him an adult. Holly, on the other hand, is a fully grown adult (as I stated above), and has a completely different level of life experience to Artemis. As you pointed out their worlds are vastly different, which as far I'm concerned would only increase the gap between them. Maturity is very much an object in any type of romantic relationship and would definitely be an obstacle for Artemis and Holly.

4. This is not yet confirmed. Before, in TTP, reverting to her adolescents, her feelings were uncontrollable. In the present, as the professional she is, she can mask her feelings with ease. So they could obviously be feelings toward Artemis, but she may just not want to express them. HOLLY, YOU TEASE.


I think any adult being suddenly forced back into their adolescent body for a short period of time would cause some serious confusion. Physically adolescence is a turbulent time - lots of raging hormones etc. - so putting that on top of a traumatic situation as was in TTP I don't blame Holly's emotions for getting somewhat out of control. In TAC, by contrast, she seemed nothing but exasperated with Orion and purely uncomfortable with the idea of her teenage human friend having a crush on her that she, in all likelihood, doesn't reciprocate.

5. How many married couples do we know that die together now a days? Seriously. One of the love birds will definitely live longer then the other no matter what, whether it's by a couple years or by a hundred. Besides, Artemis might still have magic left to extend his life. Anyways, it's actually a reason for Holly to love him even more, since he won't be around for very long. Romance is always the best if there's difficulty behind it. LONG LIVE FORBIDDEN LOVE.


The problem with this isn't the fact that one will die before the others - that's a given in the vast majority of relationships - the point is they will not be able to go through and experience life together the way couples are meant to. Artemis will age and die while Holly is still very much in the prime of her life, rather than the two of them growing old together. And that's not even adding the complication of children into the mix, if that is even possible given that biologically they are two different species even if there are physical similarities.


I don't have a problem with people shipping Artemis/Holly if that's what they want, though personally I would rather see Holly end up with Trouble and Artemis probably with a new character (I did not like Minerva and given she's not been in the books since TLC I doubt she'll make a grand reappearance). But you can't deny there are various issues that would affect a relationship between Holly and Artemis.

However, I find it pretty much irrelevant. Artemis is 15. He's still a teenager. It's very rare that any relationship begun at this point would become a long term or life long commitment, so my bet is Colfer'll just keep us hanging :razz:
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby ninjaspartan » Wed 12th Jan 2011

Very well, soulcatcher.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

Soulcatcher wrote:Sorry, but no. Not at all. Colfer never gives a direct correlation between fairy and human ages but, even so, how many adolescents do you know who are captains on an elite police force? Youthful does not equal adolescence. Colfer says Holly is still youthful for a fairy because they live for centuries, but clearly she is meant to be a fully grown adult. I would equate her age probably to mid-late twenties; she's been through school, worked her way up the ranks of her job, and clearly has a lot of life experience. Think about it; fairies age slower than humans, yes, but that means they'll still go through the physical stages of infancy, childhood, adolescence and then adulthood. And Holly is very clearly a fully grown adult, albeit one that is still classed as 'youthful'. Age will always be a problem with Artemis and Holly.


Yeah, and how many adolescence do you know that are accomplished genius like Artemis? That should evenly match all the years Holly spent developing herself as well. Otherwise, I don't think Artemus, the "adolescent" would be going on all these dangerous adventures with an elite police officer. Since we can even out experience and knowledge, all that's left is age and the level of maturity. Now, you can assume that in fairy years she's in her mid to late twenties, but the only thing that we have of any evidence to support that is the maturity of her attitude and personality. Either way, you're still neither right or wrong.
Frankly, age is just a number, especially between two entirely different species. I did that "fairy years" math to ease the minds of people who think, "oh they can't be together because she's lived for soooooooo long! She's like, got sixty five years on Arty!" That's all that logic covers. When I say that Holly could be 16 in fairy years, 16 could totally be fully grown adult for fairies. It could even be old hag. In retrospect, age five could be when fairies are licensed to drive, or even drink since they grow quickly in their early years. The math is beyond anyone, really. But all in all, you're simply a fickle person if you think that age is a boundary to love when there are even bigger concerns, such as inter species breeding to consider.

So far intellect and experience is evened out, age is simply about what someone is comfortable with, and as for maturity, let me address that in my next counter argument.

Soulcatcher wrote:There is a difference between intelligence and maturity. Arty's IQ and intelligence are far higher than your average human, but emotionally he is still a teenage boy - as Colfer details by Artemis's frustration with puberty and his inability to understand girls. He might be able to solve insane maths and science problems, but that doesn't make him an adult. Holly, on the other hand, is a fully grown adult (as I stated above), and has a completely different level of life experience to Artemis. As you pointed out their worlds are vastly different, which as far I'm concerned would only increase the gap between them. Maturity is very much an object in any type of romantic relationship and would definitely be an obstacle for Artemis and Holly.


Possibly. This is more of an open-your-book kind of debate, but I would argue that as far as dealing with puberty and girls, emotional frustration has been proven every now and again in the books, but I never recall him having problems with girls, and he never aspired to let them take over his thought process, especially early on in the first few books when puberty should have been hitting him for the first time. Not with Minerva, and not even after Holly kissed him, which at worst played with his conscious about his guilt towards a rather more-fond-of-Arty version of Holly. In fact, it took a split personality to reveal the secret crush he had on Holly which he suppressed with professional adult like maturity just for the sake of their friendship, as noted when inside his own head that Orion would ruin what he had with Holly in TAC. So no, I don't think maturity is as much as a problem for Artemis as you say as far as puberty goes. And as for Arty being a teenager, frankly the biological developmental process is almost completely at a standstill at that age and hardly noticeable. Within time, "age" will only be a number. The important thing will be that they are both youthful.

Soulcatcher wrote:I think any adult being suddenly forced back into their adolescent body for a short period of time would cause some serious confusion. Physically adolescence is a turbulent time - lots of raging hormones etc. - so putting that on top of a traumatic situation as was in TTP I don't blame Holly's emotions for getting somewhat out of control. In TAC, by contrast, she seemed nothing but exasperated with Orion and purely uncomfortable with the idea of her teenage human friend having a crush on her that she, in all likelihood, doesn't reciprocate.


Hmm. I see a dash of personal opinion sprawled out in your argument. Frankly, yes, it is a rather confusing state to be in, and hard to control. But there are no such things as emotions without a source. You can't feel something towards something else that you've never felt that way before for. Holly would definitely be unable to control her anxiety and sorrow at Artemus' nearly dead body, but if she didn't somehow deep down inside her have some kind of feelings for him that reach beyond friendship, then I don't think she would have kissed him, even as confused as she was.
TAC seems to contrast TTP, tis true, but in no other way then every other book did, except for the fact that it's already stepped into the romance pit. We still don't know how Holly feels about the whole relationship situation. She is a professional with the ability to suppress her feelings for the sake of her job, and that's all we can conclude. Maybe her exasperation came from embarrasment at this idea, not because she doesn't feel the same way, but because she is trying to reject them for some ulterior purposes.

Soulcatcher wrote:The problem with this isn't the fact that one will die before the others - that's a given in the vast majority of relationships - the point is they will not be able to go through and experience life together the way couples are meant to. Artemis will age and die while Holly is still very much in the prime of her life, rather than the two of them growing old together. And that's not even adding the complication of children into the mix, if that is even possible given that biologically they are two different species even if there are physical similarities.


Very true. That is a problem. And for the stories sake we don't want them to end up like Turnball and his lover. However it still something to amplify the connection between them if their relationship ever does catch a flame. They may not last as long as they'd like, but along the same logic they could make it worthwhile. And I'm going to play the plot device excuse and say that Arty finds the fountain of youth and lives happily ever after with Holly that way. Because, let's face it, if the guy can friggan travel through time, he can surely find a way to live longer.
And I still find that the biological compatibility is a pointless worry. Fairies have babies (or should) the same way humans do. They can even be the first to find out the consequences of cross-breeding! :D




I don't deny that there are differences between Arty and Holly. But I say that if they truly love each other, that these issues will only amplify their love and affect them for the better more then for the worst. That's how it normally works out in these fantasy romances.
In my humble opinion, they are compatible, even if only for a short get together for a couple years. ;)
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby artyroxtothecore17m » Fri 11th Feb 2011

CAPTAIN HOLLY SHORT should be artemis's girl, eh???? :wink: :focl: :mrgreen:
that would be perfect match foe ME. :D
Umm, don't know what to say.
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby IwishIwasafaerie » Fri 11th Feb 2011

^we will get along fine. :lol:
yeah. A/H rocks! :)
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby Opal's_Clone » Sat 19th Feb 2011

MEEEEE!!! No, actually, I'm not in those books. Actually, I think Minerva. It's much more realistic. DON"T KILL ME!!!!!!



BTW, I have to say....

EpicFanSauce said: Minerva was kind of a whining jerk that turns down ponies... what 12-year-old girl turns down a pony?


I would turn down a pony. I'm a girl. I'm almost 12. So, logically, that means that Minerva is awesome. (No, I don't really believe that either, but it makes for a compelling argument, wouldn't you say?)


EDIT: I just realized this whole post makes NO sense. YAY!!!!!!!
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby jsreed5 » Mon 7th Mar 2011

Why not add to the confusion?

Over the years, as I read more and more of the Artemis Fowl series, I have spent many quiet evenings tearing apart Artemis' psyche and seeing what lies at the heart of his mind. (Having displayed the symptoms of Asperger Syndrome for most of my life, I feel that the analysis is appropriate.) My own findings - and indeed, many people's on this forum - seem to suggest that Artemis has an autistic spectral disorder of some sort. (I have also come to many other conclusions, but that is a different story.)

The manifestations of autism vary widely from disorder to disorder, but one common element in practically all of them is a significant lack of empathy. Assuming Artemis does suffer from some sort of autism, he would be unable to understand relate to the feelings that other people have - he would be unable to "put himself in their shoes." While being distinct from compassion, having some empathy is necessary for feeling compassion, an emotion I think most of us can agree that Artemis has not shown too much of.

But compassion and empathy also big (though not the only) parts of romantic love. In order for Artemis to have a love interest, regardless of who it was, he would need to have the ability to feel close to them and share emotions with them, something that would be very difficult or even impossible to do if he suffered from autism. He would also need to be able to express his emotions and be able to communicate with anyone with whom he wanted to pursue a romance, another thing that autism would make very difficult.

Now I know that the ability to feel love is essentially independent from being able to feel empathy, compassion, or anything else needed for a romantic relationship. But if Artemis DOES suffer from Asperger Syndrome or some similar disorder (and the evidence is abundant that he does), his ability to pursue a love interest would be severely inhibited.

With all this in mind, my main point is that I don't think Artemis could/should be in any romantic relationship at all in the story.

Of course, if it later surfaces at Artemis definitively does NOT suffer from any form of autism, then this entire argument is moot...
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby Jayjay » Thu 17th Mar 2011

This is pointless! Arty's Girl is ME and not anyone else, you got that?
I am in Team Artemis!! Don't deny it!

Now, I would like to say, that I always click other people's dragon eggs, and I think it would be very kind of you to click mine.
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby Opal's_Clone » Mon 21st Mar 2011

Sorry, I posted first. He's mine. (JK)
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby CaptainMiraKelp » Fri 25th Mar 2011

Jayjay wrote:This is pointless! Arty's Girl is ME and not anyone else, you got that?

*cocks gun* JayJay, we've discussed the Arty and FS thing, I told you to lay off TT
BTW, I think Minnie will be Arty's girl :)
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby ArtyRocks » Sat 26th Mar 2011

CaptainMiraKelp wrote:
Jayjay wrote:This is pointless! Arty's Girl is ME and not anyone else, you got that?

*cocks gun* JayJay, we've discussed the Arty and FS thing, I told you to lay off TT
BTW, I think Minnie will be Arty's girl :)

Mira, you think Artemis is going to end up with Minerva? I would believe this if she had been in more books. Artemis is obvisously going to end up with Holly. I thought you were Team Holly. You seem not to be on her team right now. Everyone knows Holly has affection for Artemis. She worries for him when he has a problem. Holly's kissed him before in The Time Paradox. I like Minerva, don't get me wrong, but she's not in the book enough so you don't know a thing about her. Do you get what I'm saying?
P.S. It's me, ur friend Minerva from the talk box thing! plz go on soon! I'm so bored! Bye, ArtyRocks (Minerva) (from the talk box)
Sometimes,
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LOVE IS REAL
REAL IS LOVE

I like people who SMILE when it's RAINING

everybody wants happiness
nobody wants pain
but you can't have a rainbow
without a little rain


You're BEAUTIFUL. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Never give up.
there is no such thing as an ending.
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If you haven't had your happily ever after, then it just isn't the end yet.

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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby CaptainMiraKelp » Fri 22nd Apr 2011

I know who you are, BTW. I love Holly, but I think Artemis is bad for her. Really. It might not be Minerva, but in RL, it would never happen. Ever.
EVER.
Someone as tough as Holly wouldn't forgive someone like Artemis enough to love him.
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby Jayjay » Sat 23rd Apr 2011

CaptainMiraKelp wrote:
Jayjay wrote:This is pointless! Arty's Girl is ME and not anyone else, you got that?

*cocks gun* JayJay, we've discussed the Arty and FS thing, I told you to lay off TT


It's ok, I don't fantasize about him anymore, I have a new person to fantasize about.


Alex Rider... :wub: :wub: :wub:

Oh, and I think it'll be Minerva.
I am in Team Artemis!! Don't deny it!

Now, I would like to say, that I always click other people's dragon eggs, and I think it would be very kind of you to click mine.
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby ArtyRocks » Mon 25th Apr 2011

No way! u arent as obsessed with AF than usual?!? wow! u must really like someone else!
Sometimes,
people have to cry out their tears

to make room
for a heart full of SMILES~


LOVE IS REAL
REAL IS LOVE

I like people who SMILE when it's RAINING

everybody wants happiness
nobody wants pain
but you can't have a rainbow
without a little rain


You're BEAUTIFUL. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Never give up.
there is no such thing as an ending.
just a new beginning.


If you haven't had your happily ever after, then it just isn't the end yet.

Team Artemis. <3 Proud Member of the Loveless Fangirls :wub:
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Re: Artemis's Girl: Who?

Postby LEPreconGirl » Tue 3rd May 2011

Juliet. They're a cute couple...
Not all those who wander are lost...

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